Ship size classes

Lord Mackeroth wrote:

I would find it incredibly amusing if someone said:

"Fear my new Dreadnought, the largest and most powerful ship in our fleet!"

And then you destroy it using your cruiser, which is twice the size of the Dreadnought.


Hey, I never said YOU'D find it amusing

Or I detory it with my fleet of starfighters. P.S sorry about spelling mistacks

Jack Root wrote:

Keon wrote:

Perhaps we can agree to spell correctly.

Oh, wait, apparently you meant raids, according to spellcheck.

Sure we can agree to set raids on you.

Again, I am against.

I hate you so much Keon when I get the chance I will blow you out of....space

You fight against a enemy stronger than you could ever know. The most powerful of your kind could never hope to defeat me.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

No, but seriously, just stop and let's all be friends.

fine

Um... Cthulhu, you wrote "ever" instead of "never..

Which time?

Well... both. The first one was when you wrote it, the second one was part of a quote...

No. Wait, what?

I do NOT think that LENGTH should classify the ship! What about size? number of blocks? A ship 50,000 blocks long would... would... just think about it. 50,000 blocks in length is just... The SHADOW would stop my heart. Especially if the creator considered making the thing WIDE ENOUGH to look good with that length... It would be really really expensive i mean.... I am afraid of the direction that the ship classifications are heading...

I'm finding it difficult to make a ship 300+ blocks long in Creative with Worldedit, ditto for everything higher, especially once we get ingame and need to MINE these materials. I think you should revise your system to make 2000 blocks a Dreadnaught and scale everything down from that, as I seriously doubt anyone is going to make a 50,000 block long ship. Even Pat's Black Sun project will likely barely peak 1000 blocks in length.

But... but... What about the Coruscant-class? All my dreams...

In any case, it shouldn't really say 'length'. What it means is 'longest dimension'. I dunno. I think there will be ships that big. After all, with shipyards, all it takes is one person having enough patience to do it once, and there can be an infinite number of them. Yes, these ships will be expensive. Executor bankrupted whole star systems. But if any popular science fiction series has ships that big, and Star Wars does, someone will be crazy enough to build a full-scale replica of it. I've seen full-scale Venators, those are a few thousand blocks long (1,137 actually). I saw one that was 4500 blocks, although it wasn't a specific ship. And that's when they don't even do anything. If people know they can actually fly and fight these ships, we'll see some huge designs.

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

But... but... What about the Coruscant-class? All my dreams...

In any case, it shouldn't really say 'length'. What it means is 'longest dimension'. I dunno. I think there will be ships that big. After all, with shipyards, all it takes is one person having enough patience to do it once, and there can be an infinite number of them. Yes, these ships will be expensive. Executor bankrupted whole star systems. But if any popular science fiction series has ships that big, and Star Wars does, someone will be crazy enough to build a full-scale replica of it. I've seen full-scale Venators, those are a few thousand blocks long (1,137 actually). I saw one that was 4500 blocks, although it wasn't a specific ship. And that's when they don't even do anything. If people know they can actually fly and fight these ships, we'll see some huge designs.

I am not done with a ship that is.. do far... 8,000 blocks big. in LENGTH however... I bet it's about 200 blocks so far... I dunno...

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

But... but... What about the Coruscant-class? All my dreams...

In any case, it shouldn't really say 'length'. What it means is 'longest dimension'. I dunno. I think there will be ships that big. After all, with shipyards, all it takes is one person having enough patience to do it once, and there can be an infinite number of them. Yes, these ships will be expensive. Executor bankrupted whole star systems. But if any popular science fiction series has ships that big, and Star Wars does, someone will be crazy enough to build a full-scale replica of it. I've seen full-scale Venators, those are a few thousand blocks long (1,137 actually). I saw one that was 4500 blocks, although it wasn't a specific ship. And that's when they don't even do anything. If people know they can actually fly and fight these ships, we'll see some huge designs.

We'll see some designs, but we won't see ships, once people find out about how hard it'll be to acquire materials. And I think you're talking about that one ship in MC's Top Ten Spaceships, yes? You could note that there was no interior at all. Even with the power of Worldedit and infinite minerals, the process of fully furnishing a huge vessel is very tedious. I doubt there will be empty husks, doesn't seem too effective. Hence, I forsee we'll be seeing more ships in the 100-500 range than above due to the aforementioned cost and boredom issues. You can build your dreadnaughts, but they'll take a ton of time to build and be near exclusive to developed factions. There doesn't really need to be a classification above 2,000 blocks, just apply that moniker to everything bigger than it. I quite like the idea of a Venator class Dreadnaught.

Eh, I suspect the only dreadnoughts will be borg cubes.

Tiel wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

But... but... What about the Coruscant-class? All my dreams...

In any case, it shouldn't really say 'length'. What it means is 'longest dimension'. I dunno. I think there will be ships that big. After all, with shipyards, all it takes is one person having enough patience to do it once, and there can be an infinite number of them. Yes, these ships will be expensive. Executor bankrupted whole star systems. But if any popular science fiction series has ships that big, and Star Wars does, someone will be crazy enough to build a full-scale replica of it. I've seen full-scale Venators, those are a few thousand blocks long (1,137 actually). I saw one that was 4500 blocks, although it wasn't a specific ship. And that's when they don't even do anything. If people know they can actually fly and fight these ships, we'll see some huge designs.

We'll see some designs, but we won't see ships, once people find out about how hard it'll be to acquire materials. And I think you're talking about that one ship in MC's Top Ten Spaceships, yes? You could note that there was no interior at all. Even with the power of Worldedit and infinite minerals, the process of fully furnishing a huge vessel is very tedious. I doubt there will be empty husks, doesn't seem too effective. Hence, I forsee we'll be seeing more ships in the 100-500 range than above due to the aforementioned cost and boredom issues. You can build your dreadnaughts, but they'll take a ton of time to build and be near exclusive to developed factions. There doesn't really need to be a classification above 2,000 blocks, just apply that moniker to everything bigger than it. I quite like the idea of a Venator class Dreadnaught.

There's a list of the top ten MC spaceships? Lol. No, I've never seen that. The ship I saw was complete. It actually wasn't very cool, but it was huge. And of course there will be more small ships, and and the dreadnaughts will be expensive and exclusive. That's how it should be. It's realistic. However, it doesn't change my point. It doesn't make sense to have very small increments in the low ranges, and none at all for large ships. If nothing else, having high increments hurts nothing.

Also, let's see how big this wall of text can grow.

Keon wrote:

Eh, I suspect the only dreadnoughts will be borg cubes.

HAHA mcedit cubes in 2 minutes DONE.

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Tiel wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

But... but... What about the Coruscant-class? All my dreams...

In any case, it shouldn't really say 'length'. What it means is 'longest dimension'. I dunno. I think there will be ships that big. After all, with shipyards, all it takes is one person having enough patience to do it once, and there can be an infinite number of them. Yes, these ships will be expensive. Executor bankrupted whole star systems. But if any popular science fiction series has ships that big, and Star Wars does, someone will be crazy enough to build a full-scale replica of it. I've seen full-scale Venators, those are a few thousand blocks long (1,137 actually). I saw one that was 4500 blocks, although it wasn't a specific ship. And that's when they don't even do anything. If people know they can actually fly and fight these ships, we'll see some huge designs.

We'll see some designs, but we won't see ships, once people find out about how hard it'll be to acquire materials. And I think you're talking about that one ship in MC's Top Ten Spaceships, yes? You could note that there was no interior at all. Even with the power of Worldedit and infinite minerals, the process of fully furnishing a huge vessel is very tedious. I doubt there will be empty husks, doesn't seem too effective. Hence, I forsee we'll be seeing more ships in the 100-500 range than above due to the aforementioned cost and boredom issues. You can build your dreadnaughts, but they'll take a ton of time to build and be near exclusive to developed factions. There doesn't really need to be a classification above 2,000 blocks, just apply that moniker to everything bigger than it. I quite like the idea of a Venator class Dreadnaught.

There's a list of the top ten MC spaceships? Lol. No, I've never seen that. The ship I saw was complete. It actually wasn't very cool, but it was huge. And of course there will be more small ships, and and the dreadnaughts will be expensive and exclusive. That's how it should be. It's realistic. However, it doesn't change my point. It doesn't make sense to have very small increments in the low ranges, and none at all for large ships. If nothing else, having high increments hurts nothing.

Also, let's see how big this wall of text can grow.

I'm saying it's useless to have larger classes if few people will ever use them. Right now I think the system is pretty derp, no offense, because most vessels are classified as frigates in your system. Most shipbuilding will take place beneath 1,000 blocks long, so why bother creating classes at 50,000, etc? Sure, it can't hurt, but I just think you need to scale the sizes lower, ie a 100-400 block long is a frigate, 400-700 a Cruiser, and so on. I don't think players will make ships that large, and the naming convention should reflect that. If you want to make larger classes, sure. But make new ones instead of spacing the length requirements so far apart to accommodate them.

Tiel wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Tiel wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

But... but... What about the Coruscant-class? All my dreams...

In any case, it shouldn't really say 'length'. What it means is 'longest dimension'. I dunno. I think there will be ships that big. After all, with shipyards, all it takes is one person having enough patience to do it once, and there can be an infinite number of them. Yes, these ships will be expensive. Executor bankrupted whole star systems. But if any popular science fiction series has ships that big, and Star Wars does, someone will be crazy enough to build a full-scale replica of it. I've seen full-scale Venators, those are a few thousand blocks long (1,137 actually). I saw one that was 4500 blocks, although it wasn't a specific ship. And that's when they don't even do anything. If people know they can actually fly and fight these ships, we'll see some huge designs.

We'll see some designs, but we won't see ships, once people find out about how hard it'll be to acquire materials. And I think you're talking about that one ship in MC's Top Ten Spaceships, yes? You could note that there was no interior at all. Even with the power of Worldedit and infinite minerals, the process of fully furnishing a huge vessel is very tedious. I doubt there will be empty husks, doesn't seem too effective. Hence, I forsee we'll be seeing more ships in the 100-500 range than above due to the aforementioned cost and boredom issues. You can build your dreadnaughts, but they'll take a ton of time to build and be near exclusive to developed factions. There doesn't really need to be a classification above 2,000 blocks, just apply that moniker to everything bigger than it. I quite like the idea of a Venator class Dreadnaught.

There's a list of the top ten MC spaceships? Lol. No, I've never seen that. The ship I saw was complete. It actually wasn't very cool, but it was huge. And of course there will be more small ships, and and the dreadnaughts will be expensive and exclusive. That's how it should be. It's realistic. However, it doesn't change my point. It doesn't make sense to have very small increments in the low ranges, and none at all for large ships. If nothing else, having high increments hurts nothing.

Also, let's see how big this wall of text can grow.

I'm saying it's useless to have larger classes if few people will ever use them. Right now I think the system is pretty derp, no offense, because most vessels are classified as frigates in your system. Most shipbuilding will take place beneath 1,000 blocks long, so why bother creating classes at 50,000, etc? Sure, it can't hurt, but I just think you need to scale the sizes lower, ie a 100-400 block long is a frigate, 400-700 a Cruiser, and so on. I don't think players will make ships that large, and the naming convention should reflect that. If you want to make larger classes, sure. But make new ones instead of spacing the length requirements so far apart to accommodate them.

I do understand what you mean. But think about SoaSE. There are what, maybe 7 TEC frigates? And then (I think) 6 cruisers and 5 capital ships. Most ships should be frigates - your fleet should have hundreds of them for every battleship. But they're all still frigates, because they're all roughly the same size. It just seems odd to me to have the increments that small, but that's what I made this thread to determine. I'll make a poll about it.

Tiel wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Tiel wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

But... but... What about the Coruscant-class? All my dreams...

In any case, it shouldn't really say 'length'. What it means is 'longest dimension'. I dunno. I think there will be ships that big. After all, with shipyards, all it takes is one person having enough patience to do it once, and there can be an infinite number of them. Yes, these ships will be expensive. Executor bankrupted whole star systems. But if any popular science fiction series has ships that big, and Star Wars does, someone will be crazy enough to build a full-scale replica of it. I've seen full-scale Venators, those are a few thousand blocks long (1,137 actually). I saw one that was 4500 blocks, although it wasn't a specific ship. And that's when they don't even do anything. If people know they can actually fly and fight these ships, we'll see some huge designs.

We'll see some designs, but we won't see ships, once people find out about how hard it'll be to acquire materials. And I think you're talking about that one ship in MC's Top Ten Spaceships, yes? You could note that there was no interior at all. Even with the power of Worldedit and infinite minerals, the process of fully furnishing a huge vessel is very tedious. I doubt there will be empty husks, doesn't seem too effective. Hence, I forsee we'll be seeing more ships in the 100-500 range than above due to the aforementioned cost and boredom issues. You can build your dreadnaughts, but they'll take a ton of time to build and be near exclusive to developed factions. There doesn't really need to be a classification above 2,000 blocks, just apply that moniker to everything bigger than it. I quite like the idea of a Venator class Dreadnaught.

There's a list of the top ten MC spaceships? Lol. No, I've never seen that. The ship I saw was complete. It actually wasn't very cool, but it was huge. And of course there will be more small ships, and and the dreadnaughts will be expensive and exclusive. That's how it should be. It's realistic. However, it doesn't change my point. It doesn't make sense to have very small increments in the low ranges, and none at all for large ships. If nothing else, having high increments hurts nothing.

Also, let's see how big this wall of text can grow.

I'm saying it's useless to have larger classes if few people will ever use them. Right now I think the system is pretty derp, no offense, because most vessels are classified as frigates in your system. Most shipbuilding will take place beneath 1,000 blocks long, so why bother creating classes at 50,000, etc? Sure, it can't hurt, but I just think you need to scale the sizes lower, ie a 100-400 block long is a frigate, 400-700 a Cruiser, and so on. I don't think players will make ships that large, and the naming convention should reflect that. If you want to make larger classes, sure. But make new ones instead of spacing the length requirements so far apart to accommodate them.

I do believe that the ship sizes should approximate power as well.
Like a dreadnought class ship should just be around 800-1000 blocks, while the ships above have a size increase of 200 blocks each time.
Like a Dreadnought can be the same size as a smaller super-dreadnought, but not as powerful.

It's hard to say what ingame mining will be like, but considering the multiple arguments insisting that you'll be able to play Minecraft before going all space on those creepers, I'd assume resource collection would be not as tedious as vanilla MC, but still an obstacle one would need to pass before even thinking of building a nice ship. Now, you and I both know how difficult it is making ships over a hundred blocks even with powerful tools like WorldEdit, ToomanyItems, and MCEdit at our fingertips.

With the system as it is, I can see where you're coming from with similar sizes, but as kenny said a 200 blocks difference between ship types would be more than sufficient. And here there's a duel between realism and, for lack of a better term, fun. Currently, let's say you work your butt off making a 500 block long ship. You promptly name it an Akura class cruiser, yet according to the universal naming convention it's only a frigate, not even an Assault Frigate, at that. Point being, frigates should be common, but not so much so that almost every ship is classified as one. Smaller increments makes more sense because we'll have greater ship diversity, and consequently more people will consider building their own little vessel instead of trying and failing to make it past the 1k block length prerequisite for a cruiser. Another concern is the size of the bloody things, even if I'm wrong and players still manage to mass produce, say, Assault Cruisers, you have to consider the impact of such massive entities on other ship commanders, nevermind the strain put on everyone's CPUs by the NPCs that ostensibly are going to populate our assault craft.

Again, understand what you're saying with Sins. However, the amount of frigate types in the game is to minimize the various roles into distinct 'classes', if you will, to increase recognition of every species's variant of a specific type of spaceship. In Futurecraft, everyone will be making their own ships and haphazardly fitting them into their own roles within their fleets, so there's no need for several different types of frigate. I'd suggest only having Assault/Battle variants of the warships in order to, as mentioned above, increase fleet diversity. I don't want to say to my XO "We have a fleet of Frigates coming in on an intercept vector," I want to say, "We have a fleet of what looks to be a handful of Battlecruisers and Combat Corvettes." Intelligence should play a huge role in how you wage your wars, and sticking the label of 'Frigate' on most ships doesn't entirely help that case.

Is there an option for total block count? If not there needs to be one.

Corvette (20-80 blocks long)

As spacefaring races reached for the stars and managed to battle within them as well, they realized a need for an assault craft that wasn't as unwieldy as larger warships but packed more punch than traditional starfighters. The outcome was the swift, yet deadly, corvette classification of ship. Corvettes typically fill reconnaissance roles due to increases in maneuverability of the drives of conventional ships of the line, but still pack a mighty punch when organized into 'wolf packs', groups that have been noted to take down ships three times to size of their member craft. But for serious battles, typically fleets have a Combat Corvette classification (60-80 blocks) that weave in and out of capital ship broadsides to deliver a deadly payload of missiles and lasers. Whilst laden more heavily than their smaller cousins, they sacrifice little of the maneuverability, and also like their counterparts, crews only reach as large as 20 members at a time, with the sole pilot also acting as the commander of the vessel.

Frigate (80-250 blocks long)

A long used but stalwart and reliable class, they form the bulk of many fleets but oftentimes don't need the support to be combat effective. With multiple gun emplacements and speedy normalspace drives, frigates serve as the happy medium between the nimble corvettes and mammoth cruisers. While not as agile as the corvettes, frigates feature above average maneuverability with enough armor and shielding to get the job done. Job descriptions typically range from escorting larger vessels from corvette threats to carrying massive siege lasers that decimate enemy shields.

Crew is almost always upwards of 50 unless an Artificial Intelligence module is installed, though these are rare on smaller classes of ship. But while the frigate is a well enough asset on its own, fleet commanders soon realized their fragility due to their versatility and commissioned a variant commonly referred to as the Assault Frigate (150-230 blocks) designed to function more as a cheaper Cruiser than its former variety of roles. Assault Frigates cram many cruiser weapons into their small chassis, making for a very effective and non cost prohibitive alternative to larger ships, albeit having a shorter list of specializations.

Cruiser (250-425 blocks long)

A less common class, cruisers form the backbone of many a fleet. Commanded by seasoned crews of 100+ and correspondingly advanced weaponry, the class originated from a need for higher quality assault ship that would be guaranteed to survive long into engagements and even into additional battles without repairs or resupplying. Oftentimes referred to as 'ships of the line' due to their higher than average expense, cruisers function well as 'lone wolves' and can accommodate high ranking fleet officers; as a result many a battle has been fought with an admiral at the helm of one as opposed to larger but more bulky Carriers or Dreadnoughts that enemy ships know to concentrate fire on.

While not as maneuverable as Corvettes or Frigates, the class features an intimidating drive capable of elaborate evasive maneuvers. Cruisers carry a variety of heavy hitting weapons, but those equipped with the thundering higher caliber guns are often referred to as Battlecruisers (375-425 blocks), though they sacrifice most of their agility in order to produce the power needed to fire them. As a result, most Battlecruisers are designed with thick armor plating to make the most of this disadvantage.

Juggernaut (425-600 blocks long)

Smaller classes are vulnerable. Juggernaut laughs at their pitiful excuses for weapons and armor. The second largest ship ever fielded by any known fleet, Juggernauts feature tremendous thickness of armor plating just in case the entire enemy fleet manages to punch a hole or two in their equally powerful shields. Second only in cost to the massive Dreadnoughts, they are reserved for the commanding officers of large fleets who desire the protection afforded by the humongous craft crewed by well over 200 experienced staff members; not including a corresponding marine attachment for capturing enemy vessels or defending the ship from being boarded itself. The lumbering vessel is a prime target for Combat Corvettes and the aforementioned boarding parties due to its almost nonexistent agility, but this shouldn't be a problem with a supporting fleet of frigates and/or cruisers.

The Juggernaut's primary role is the destruction of other ships of its class and cruisers that may pose a threat to the fleet it presides over. Most Juggernauts are equipped with an AI to take control of the multiple weapon banks, leaving only the heaviest weapons to gunnery crews stationed throughout the ship. Should the AI core be disabled by any means, a Juggernaut would be crippled. A variant is the Carrier (550-600 blocks) which exclusively uses starfighters as its only offensive capability. Though it mounts heavy cannons and a screen of flak turrets, the Carrier is designed to be stationed on the rim of the battle, and consequently relies on a supporting fleet more than the standard Juggernaut. Many fleet officers prefer being stationed on a Carrier because of its distance from the heat of the battle and its serendipitous ability to flee more quickly than any other ship participating in the battle.

Dreadnought (600-∞ blocks)

The rarest ship class in fleets, its introduction stemmed from the need to take on entire fleets at once and provide a negative psychological effect on enemy crewmen. Known to drain entire star systems of resources in order to be constructed, the sight of an enemy Dreadnought warping in usually signifies the beginning of the end for opposing warships. In fact, many admirals have been known to pull back entirely due to the class's reputation. Usually equipped with the best technology a faction has available, they are armed to the teeth with heavy weapons and an even larger network of smaller caliber guns for boarding craft, fighters, and the occasional pesky corvette. The massive reactors necessary for powering said weapons could prove a prime target, with catastrophic results.

The crew capacity of most dreadnoughts scale upwards of 500 of the best the constructor's navy can offer. The exact number of these fearsome ships is unknown due to the various factions concealing how many they have built for a tactical edge in upcoming battles. It is, however, a rarity for more than one, if any, to exist in smaller realms. A Dreadnought can coordinate several fleets at once and has many destructive capabilities, so they are deployed sparingly.


Other classes:

Destroyer

A frigate cruiser with exclusively anti capital ship weaponry, which typically consists of a siege laser and heavy turrets.

Dropship:

In space, dropships are between a corvette and a small cruiser in size, and while lacking offensive capabilities of their own, they can land on the surface and deploy troops while the defending fleet is pre-occupied. (ie, Acclamator I in Star Wars)

Gunboat

A corvette designed primarily for killing other corvettes, or for atmospheric superiority.

Diplomatic Ship

Never larger than a frigate, Diplomatic Ships carry no weapons and must rely on enemy goodwill to survive. Many a conflict has been sparked by the destruction of one of these vessels.


Also, jedi, if you don't mind could you add this to the poll?

Can I edit this system ? - corvette will be 10-40 blocks
frigate (Light manuverable vessel) - 41-100
cruiser (all purpose vessel, has the right balance between weapons and speed) - 100 - 200
Battleship (A capital ship by definition, fits this size) - 200-425
Dreadnaught (Which is a heavy battlecruiser by definition) - 425-600
Juggernaut (Unstopable distructive power by definition) - 600 - whatever gigantic stuff you have in your mind.

a cubic system would be better. A ship that was as tall as a dreadnought is wide, and it is only 30 blocks long... would it still be a frigate?

This is the exact old system for ship sizes. Official and unaltered. Of course, I am against having set sizes.

Spoiler:

Lord Mackeroth wrote:

This is the exact old system for ship sizes. Official and unaltered. Of course, I am against having set sizes.

Spoiler:

dafuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuq?...I like it, but to large!