The thread where I discuss whatever I want with whoever I want

Also, I think the upcoming Titan-class ships will have something to say about that.

Pat Best wrote:

Tiel wrote:

There were two Eclipse class Star Dreadnaughts, but the second was a successor as opposed to a sister ship. But then again, there's the Sun Crusher which makes celestial bodies go supernova; the Empire could simply use that to blow the hell out of the Advent's home system. I doubt the Admirals would be competent enough to think of that, though

That was a point I was keeping in stock in case Last Jedi got me in a corner eventually.

The imperial military is filled with incompetents.

Not a single one of them can shoot straight.

Three full-fledged star destroyers couldn't bring down one tiny little bucket of bolts called the Millenium Falcon, and then flew right into each other.

Plus, I don't think the Advent have a home system. They were exiled from their planet of origin for a thousand years and now they're back to kill everyone for revenge about that.

Thrawn. That's all I need to say.

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Tiel wrote:

There were two Eclipse class Star Dreadnaughts, but the second was a successor as opposed to a sister ship. But then again, there's the Sun Crusher which makes celestial bodies go supernova; the Empire could simply use that to blow the hell out of the Advent's home system. I doubt the Admirals would be competent enough to think of that, though

That was a point I was keeping in stock in case Last Jedi got me in a corner eventually.

The imperial military is filled with incompetents.

Not a single one of them can shoot straight.

Three full-fledged star destroyers couldn't bring down one tiny little bucket of bolts called the Millenium Falcon, and then flew right into each other.

Plus, I don't think the Advent have a home system. They were exiled from their planet of origin for a thousand years and now they're back to kill everyone for revenge about that.

Thrawn. That's all I need to say.

One skilled commander amongst an almighty army of morons?

Even Thrawn had a tendency to be overconfident, wouldn't you agree? That's what led to his eventual demise. If the Empire had 100 Thrawns they'd be set, but with a power crazed maniac like Palpatine or Isard at the helm with underlings as eager to cut each others throats for a higher position as decimating the enemy...

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Tiel wrote:

There were two Eclipse class Star Dreadnaughts, but the second was a successor as opposed to a sister ship. But then again, there's the Sun Crusher which makes celestial bodies go supernova; the Empire could simply use that to blow the hell out of the Advent's home system. I doubt the Admirals would be competent enough to think of that, though

That was a point I was keeping in stock in case Last Jedi got me in a corner eventually.

The imperial military is filled with incompetents.

Not a single one of them can shoot straight.

Three full-fledged star destroyers couldn't bring down one tiny little bucket of bolts called the Millenium Falcon, and then flew right into each other.

Plus, I don't think the Advent have a home system. They were exiled from their planet of origin for a thousand years and now they're back to kill everyone for revenge about that.

Thrawn. That's all I need to say.

One skilled commander amongst an almighty army of morons?

More or less. He was so good that it averages out, though. There were other skilled commanders (Pellaeon is a good example. Daala is, too, although she was pretty crazy.), of course, but not all that many. The Empire focused on quantity, not quality.

Tiel wrote:

Even Thrawn had a tendency to be overconfident, wouldn't you agree? That's what led to his eventual demise. If the Empire had 100 Thrawns they'd be set, but with a power crazed maniac like Palpatine or Isard at the helm with underlings as eager to cut each others throats for a higher position as decimating the enemy...

He wasn't very overconfident. He was exactly confident enough. He just misjudged the Noghri's reaction to the Mal'ary'ush. The revelation that Vader had lied to them was quite a shock.

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Tiel wrote:

There were two Eclipse class Star Dreadnaughts, but the second was a successor as opposed to a sister ship. But then again, there's the Sun Crusher which makes celestial bodies go supernova; the Empire could simply use that to blow the hell out of the Advent's home system. I doubt the Admirals would be competent enough to think of that, though

That was a point I was keeping in stock in case Last Jedi got me in a corner eventually.

The imperial military is filled with incompetents.

Not a single one of them can shoot straight.

Three full-fledged star destroyers couldn't bring down one tiny little bucket of bolts called the Millenium Falcon, and then flew right into each other.

Plus, I don't think the Advent have a home system. They were exiled from their planet of origin for a thousand years and now they're back to kill everyone for revenge about that.

Thrawn. That's all I need to say.

One skilled commander amongst an almighty army of morons?

More or less. He was so good that it averages out, though. There were other skilled commanders (Pellaeon is a good example. Daala is, too, although she was pretty crazy.), of course, but not all that many. The Empire focused on quantity, not quality.

Quantity won't do you good, I bet three Radiance battleships escorted by six Iconus Guardian cruisers can take out over a dozen Star Destroyers at once if the captains of the Star Destroyers don't catch on quick enough to what's going on.

( These are the kind of captains that fly their ships right into their other ships, so I don't think they would )

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Tiel wrote:

There were two Eclipse class Star Dreadnaughts, but the second was a successor as opposed to a sister ship. But then again, there's the Sun Crusher which makes celestial bodies go supernova; the Empire could simply use that to blow the hell out of the Advent's home system. I doubt the Admirals would be competent enough to think of that, though

That was a point I was keeping in stock in case Last Jedi got me in a corner eventually.

The imperial military is filled with incompetents.

Not a single one of them can shoot straight.

Three full-fledged star destroyers couldn't bring down one tiny little bucket of bolts called the Millenium Falcon, and then flew right into each other.

Plus, I don't think the Advent have a home system. They were exiled from their planet of origin for a thousand years and now they're back to kill everyone for revenge about that.

Thrawn. That's all I need to say.

One skilled commander amongst an almighty army of morons?

More or less. He was so good that it averages out, though. There were other skilled commanders (Pellaeon is a good example. Daala is, too, although she was pretty crazy.), of course, but not all that many. The Empire focused on quantity, not quality.

Quantity won't do you good, I bet three Radiance battleships escorted by six Iconus Guardian cruisers can take out over a dozen Star Destroyers at once if the captains of the Star Destroyers don't catch on quick enough to what's going on.

( These are the kind of captains that fly their ships right into their other ships, so I don't think they would )

Nowhere in the movies did it show Star Destroyers crashing into each other. Executor crashed into the Death Star, but that was only because Arvel Crynyd flew an A-wing into the bridge.

Oh but there is, I don't remember in which one exactly, but the Millenium Falcon is being pursued by one Star Destroyer, then two more show up in front of them.

Solo pilots the Falcon directly at them then dives away, and all three collide into each other.

They didn't destroy each other, I'll give you that, but that has got to have done a number on the paint job, any weapons, armor and compartments located on the impact surface.

Pat Best wrote:

Oh but there is, I don't remember in which one exactly, but the Millenium Falcon is being pursued by one Star Destroyer, then two more show up in front of them.

Solo pilots the Falcon directly at them then dives away, and all three collide into each other.

The scene you're thinking of is in Episode V, when the Falcon escapes from Hoth and flies into the asteroid field. The Star Destroyers don't actually collide. They just look like they do because of where the camera is. They pass above and below each other.

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Oh but there is, I don't remember in which one exactly, but the Millenium Falcon is being pursued by one Star Destroyer, then two more show up in front of them.

Solo pilots the Falcon directly at them then dives away, and all three collide into each other.

The scene you're thinking of is in Episode V, when the Falcon escapes from Hoth and flies into the asteroid field. The Star Destroyers don't actually collide. They just look like they do because of where the camera is. They pass above and below each other.

The captain and bridge crew being thrown to the ground seem to disagree with you.

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Oh but there is, I don't remember in which one exactly, but the Millenium Falcon is being pursued by one Star Destroyer, then two more show up in front of them.

Solo pilots the Falcon directly at them then dives away, and all three collide into each other.

The scene you're thinking of is in Episode V, when the Falcon escapes from Hoth and flies into the asteroid field. The Star Destroyers don't actually collide. They just look like they do because of where the camera is. They pass above and below each other.

The captain and bridge crew being thrown to the ground seem to disagree with you.

Maybe thats the shield collisions.

ACH0225 wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Oh but there is, I don't remember in which one exactly, but the Millenium Falcon is being pursued by one Star Destroyer, then two more show up in front of them.

Solo pilots the Falcon directly at them then dives away, and all three collide into each other.

The scene you're thinking of is in Episode V, when the Falcon escapes from Hoth and flies into the asteroid field. The Star Destroyers don't actually collide. They just look like they do because of where the camera is. They pass above and below each other.

The captain and bridge crew being thrown to the ground seem to disagree with you.

Maybe thats the shield collisions.

I don't think their shields work that way. They did squat diddly to stop an asteroid from hitting a star destroyer smack in the bridge.

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Oh but there is, I don't remember in which one exactly, but the Millenium Falcon is being pursued by one Star Destroyer, then two more show up in front of them.

Solo pilots the Falcon directly at them then dives away, and all three collide into each other.

The scene you're thinking of is in Episode V, when the Falcon escapes from Hoth and flies into the asteroid field. The Star Destroyers don't actually collide. They just look like they do because of where the camera is. They pass above and below each other.

The captain and bridge crew being thrown to the ground seem to disagree with you.

They were thrown to the ground when Crynyd crashed, not here. They clearly don't collide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2KztwIScY8

My video evidence counters your photo evidence. That's a crashing sound, along with people being thrown around from the shock, and alarms blaring at their incompetence.

A picture is worth a thousand words, a movie is worth much much more ^_^

Pat Best wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2KztwIScY8

My video evidence counters your photo evidence. That's a crashing sound, along with people being thrown around from the shock, and alarms blaring at their incompetence.

A picture is worth a thousand words, a movie is worth much much more ^_^

Look out the viewport at the other ImpStar. The view is from inside the bridge of the lower Star Destroyer, looking at the widest part of the upper Star Destroyer, quite some distance away. There are alarms and shaking because they are in combat, not because of collisions. If the other ImpStar had actually hit the bridge, they would have been ripped out into space. The tower is small and fragile compared to the bulk of the Destroyer, and there wouldn't have been anything left. Instead, there is no damage.

I really need to watch the movies again. That kicked up way too much nostalgia ಠ-ಠ

@Jedi, why would they sound alarms? Did they think the freighter had a nuke? Maybe there's a mass proximity sensor in the ship or something.

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2KztwIScY8

My video evidence counters your photo evidence. That's a crashing sound, along with people being thrown around from the shock, and alarms blaring at their incompetence.

A picture is worth a thousand words, a movie is worth much much more ^_^

Look out the viewport at the other ImpStar. The view is from inside the bridge of the lower Star Destroyer, looking at the widest part of the upper Star Destroyer, quite some distance away. There are alarms and shaking because they are in combat, not because of collisions. If the other ImpStar had actually hit the bridge, they would have been ripped out into space. The tower is small and fragile compared to the bulk of the Destroyer, and there wouldn't have been anything left. Instead, there is no damage.

Right, and I suppose the millenium falcon, with it's tiny little quad lasers, made a star destroyer rock like that?

The bottom surface of one of the destroyers hit the top surface of the other, not the bridge.

Tiel wrote:

I really need to watch the movies again. That kicked up way too much nostalgia ಠ-ಠ

@Jedi, why would they sound alarms? Did they think the freighter had a nuke? Maybe there's a mass proximity sensor in the ship or something.

There would be all sorts of alarms going off, even ones that had nothing to do with the Falcon. They are getting pretty close to the other destroyer, not to mention the asteroid field. They're also scrambling starfighters, which has a whole different set of things to deal with. The Falcon doesn't carry nukes, but during the Yuuzhan Vong War they carried missiles with baradium warheads. Those would put a serious dent in a Star Destroyer, but I don't think they had them at this point in time.

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2KztwIScY8

My video evidence counters your photo evidence. That's a crashing sound, along with people being thrown around from the shock, and alarms blaring at their incompetence.

A picture is worth a thousand words, a movie is worth much much more ^_^

Look out the viewport at the other ImpStar. The view is from inside the bridge of the lower Star Destroyer, looking at the widest part of the upper Star Destroyer, quite some distance away. There are alarms and shaking because they are in combat, not because of collisions. If the other ImpStar had actually hit the bridge, they would have been ripped out into space. The tower is small and fragile compared to the bulk of the Destroyer, and there wouldn't have been anything left. Instead, there is no damage.

Right, and I suppose the millenium falcon, with it's tiny little quad lasers, made a star destroyer rock like that?

The bottom surface of one of the destroyers hit the top surface of the other, not the bridge.

Think about how a Star Destroyer is configured. How could it possibly hit the top and not the bridge, going parallel like that?

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2KztwIScY8

My video evidence counters your photo evidence. That's a crashing sound, along with people being thrown around from the shock, and alarms blaring at their incompetence.

A picture is worth a thousand words, a movie is worth much much more ^_^

Look out the viewport at the other ImpStar. The view is from inside the bridge of the lower Star Destroyer, looking at the widest part of the upper Star Destroyer, quite some distance away. There are alarms and shaking because they are in combat, not because of collisions. If the other ImpStar had actually hit the bridge, they would have been ripped out into space. The tower is small and fragile compared to the bulk of the Destroyer, and there wouldn't have been anything left. Instead, there is no damage.

Right, and I suppose the millenium falcon, with it's tiny little quad lasers, made a star destroyer rock like that?

The bottom surface of one of the destroyers hit the top surface of the other, not the bridge.

Think about how a Star Destroyer is configured. How could it possibly hit the top and not the bridge, going parallel like that?

I'd make you a fancy drawing but sadly my drawing apparatus is out of hand at the moment.

But aside from that, let's look at the facts:

At the beginning of the scene, there's one of those little typical star wars transitional cuts, indicating that some time has passed since the last scene, so we can safely assume that the battle is out of range of the Ion cannon we've seen fired from Hoth.

To back that point up, Hoth is nowhere to be seen from any of the angles.

With that in mind, we also know there are no other rebel ships in the area, they've all fled with the evacuation vessels and Luke's gone to see Yoda.

They may be nearing the asteroid field but again, not a single asteroid is seen near the destroyers, and if it had they should have seen it coming before then.

So, logically, the only source of enemy fire could possibly come from the Falcon, but not only does the falcon not possess any weapons capable of such impact, they had no one manning the turrets at the time.

The destroyers certainly didn't fire on themselves, because if they did it may disprove my point but that's hardly a better conclusion.

The only possible source of the impact and tremors could be from the collision of both destroyers.

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2KztwIScY8

My video evidence counters your photo evidence. That's a crashing sound, along with people being thrown around from the shock, and alarms blaring at their incompetence.

A picture is worth a thousand words, a movie is worth much much more ^_^

Look out the viewport at the other ImpStar. The view is from inside the bridge of the lower Star Destroyer, looking at the widest part of the upper Star Destroyer, quite some distance away. There are alarms and shaking because they are in combat, not because of collisions. If the other ImpStar had actually hit the bridge, they would have been ripped out into space. The tower is small and fragile compared to the bulk of the Destroyer, and there wouldn't have been anything left. Instead, there is no damage.

Right, and I suppose the millenium falcon, with it's tiny little quad lasers, made a star destroyer rock like that?

The bottom surface of one of the destroyers hit the top surface of the other, not the bridge.

Think about how a Star Destroyer is configured. How could it possibly hit the top and not the bridge, going parallel like that?

I'd make you a fancy drawing but sadly my drawing apparatus is out of hand at the moment.

But aside from that, let's look at the facts:

At the beginning of the scene, there's one of those little typical star wars transitional cuts, indicating that some time has passed since the last scene, so we can safely assume that the battle is out of range of the Ion cannon we've seen fired from Hoth.

To back that point up, Hoth is nowhere to be seen from any of the angles.

With that in mind, we also know there are no other rebel ships in the area, they've all fled with the evacuation vessels and Luke's gone to see Yoda.

They may be nearing the asteroid field but again, not a single asteroid is seen near the destroyers, and if it had they should have seen it coming before then.

So, logically, the only source of enemy fire could possibly come from the Falcon, but not only does the falcon not possess any weapons capable of such impact, they had no one manning the turrets at the time.

The destroyers certainly didn't fire on themselves, because if they did it may disprove my point but that's hardly a better conclusion.

The only possible source of the impact and tremors could be from the collision of both destroyers.

You are correct about the ion cannon. Either they are out of range or the ground troops have disabled it.

You are correct about there being no rebels around, with the obvious exception of the Falcon.

They are entering the asteroid field. The Falcon goes in there moments after the shot of the bridge. That's why there are alarms. If they didn't see it coming, there wouldn't have been any. In any case, I'm not saying that the two ImpStars didn't get very close, almost certainly close enough to trigger proximity alarms. They just didn't hit.

I don't think there is any enemy fire involved. You're right that the Falcon couldn't scratch and ImpStar, but there are al sorts of things that could have caused alarms and shaking. In your video, you can see that one of the destroyers is turning very sharply (for a ship that large). That could cause some shaking.

TheForce.net specifically refers to 'the near-collision during the chase from Hoth in The Empire Strikes Back'.

Yay a good argument.

I'm still not convinced it was an asteroid though, but let me raise a point:

Perhaps the proximity alone from the two gigantic vessels could have caused the shaking. For example: when two fighter jets get too close to each other, the air pressure emanating from them will cause disturbances in each others' flight paths.

Now, in space, there is no air to cause pressure, but two objects of such mass may be generating gravity fields, or have equipment designed to create an anti-gravity field of sorts around them, and both gravity fields touching would have caused the same phenomenon.

Although I could also argue that a scratch, just as two cars would touch slightly, tearing the paint off each other, could be called a near-collision, since there is contact but no actual transfer of kinetic energy and blah blah blah I'm in way over my head in physics stuffs.

Pat Best wrote:

Yay a good argument.

I'm still not convinced it was an asteroid though, but let me raise a point:

Perhaps the proximity alone from the two gigantic vessels could have caused the shaking. For example: when two fighter jets get too close to each other, the air pressure emanating from them will cause disturbances in each others' flight paths.

Now, in space, there is no air to cause pressure, but two objects of such mass may be generating gravity fields, or have equipment designed to create an anti-gravity field of sorts around them, and both gravity fields touching would have caused the same phenomenon.

Although I could also argue that a scratch, just as two cars would touch slightly, tearing the paint off each other, could be called a near-collision, since there is contact but no actual transfer of kinetic energy and blah blah blah I'm in way over my head in physics stuffs.

Or the power of their shields. I know they don't stop asteroids, but they might cause turbulence.

Anyways, the argument I was going to present that started all of this still stands, because if the commanders of Star Destroyers allow their ships to get into such perilous proximity and wait so long before reacting that when they do it's too late, I could easily position my ships where they need to be and spring my trap before they figure out what's going on.



Edit: I find it strange that their shields don't stop asteroids. Possibly they are some sort of energy intercepting shields, sort of like static electrecity, if you get my meaning, that prevent energy projectiles ( lasers and such ) from getting through but don't do anything to prevent physical objects from getting through, like when the Falcon attached itself onto the bridge of a Destroyer and the crew didn't understand what happened.

If this is the case, the TEC would have quite some fun engaging the Imperial fleet into battle, since they mostly rely on physical projectile weapons ( auto cannons, gauss cannons, missiles, etc.. )