Sci-Fi Franchises

I really wish I had facts like this about SoaSE
All I've got so far is ship sizes, planetary defenses, and obvious stuff like Advent being telekinetic or the TEC being able to produce massive amounts of ships in short periods of time.

Wow it mean's you're not addicted .

Pat Best wrote:

I really wish I had facts like this about SoaSE
All I've got so far is ship sizes, planetary defenses, and obvious stuff like Advent being telekinetic or the TEC being able to produce massive amounts of ships in short periods of time.

How about this:

The Enterprise is about the same size as a frigate in SoaSE. It can't even take on a single ship. Now take a capital ship or a titan. Then laugh at the Enterprise.

Keon wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

I really wish I had facts like this about SoaSE
All I've got so far is ship sizes, planetary defenses, and obvious stuff like Advent being telekinetic or the TEC being able to produce massive amounts of ships in short periods of time.

How about this:

The Enterprise is about the same size as a frigate in SoaSE. It can't even take on a single ship. Now take a capital ship or a titan. Then laugh at the Enterprise.

I wasn't referring to Star Trek, it's obvious any of the factions in SoaSE win against Star Trek. Anyone wins against Star Trek, it's that simple.

It's more for the matchup against the Empire. That would be more fun and even, but like I said, all we got is approximate ship sizes, not weapon power measurements, shield strength ( although if we get weapon strength we can also tell how good the shields are ), fleet sizes, etc...

A revision of Mass Effect's shield systems suddenly reveals a fatal flaw in their functionality in the event that they would face off against ships from Sins, Star Trek or Star Wars.

The Kinetic Barriers are mass effect fields that repel solid objects approaching at high speeds, bullets, slugs, shells, missiles. However they have zero impact on energy weapons (explaining why the Reapers f*ck their shit up so easily).
Basically, since all weapons in Mass Effect are kinetic projectile weapons, all they've ever needed are shields that work against such weapons.
But then when you start firing at them with lasers, beams and plasma weapons, things don't go too well for them.

Warhammer 40k's Eldar/Dark Eldar/Necrons would obliterate any of these other fleets. Here's why:

1) Ship scale - Ships in the 40k universe are HUGE. The general consensus is that in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, Imperial Escort vessels are anywhere between 750 metres and 3 kilometres in length, Cruisers are anywhere between 5 and 6 kilometres long and Battleships anywhere between 6 and 8 kilometres, although several are MUCH larger. Alien ships are generally assumed to be of a similar scale. Craftworlds are planetoid size.

2) Numbers - A single Craftworld carries enough ships to challenge ME's allied fleet as far as raw numbers are concerned. Dark Eldar have exponentially more, and the Necrons (represented as a species) outnumber both of them put together.

3) Technology - All 3 races have been around for millions of years and have advanced to the point where they have weapons that ignore the laws of physics. 'Nuff said.

4) Defences - The shields on Eldar vessels I admittedly know very little about, but Dark Eldar and Necron ships are nigh-indestructible. Dark Eldar use a cloaking mechanism that has the unpleasent side effect of making them almost immune to direct hits ( In Battlefleet Gothic, a Shadow Field gives a 2+invulnerable throw even against a warp drive detonation at point blank range). There was also an incident where a few Necron frigates showed up near Sol and were able to land on Mars before they were destroyed. They were being fired upon by an entire battlefleet by the time they got to Saturn. That's a VERY long time to survive under that kind of firepower.

5) Offence - In addition to having excellent fighters, all three species have weapons that ignore physics and can cut through Imperial battleships with relative ease. Craftworlds have weapons that can turn a planet into glass at a moment's notice.

Unfortunately, the fluff has built in provisions whereas each of these species is so segmented for various reasons that they would never work together as a cohesive force. That said, a single Craftworld fleet can take on a Tyranid Hive fleet (Billions of ships) on its own.

As far as Star Trek goes, the only race that could stand up on its own outside of the fiction (disregarding the Q Continuum) is Species 8472.

@Pat Best - Guess again, kinetic barriers are effective against GARDIAN fire, which is a form of directed energy. You cannot have completely massless directed energy weapon without ignoring physics. Also, Reaper weapons use a stream of molten metal similar to the Thanix Cannon, they aren't directed energy.

Avenger_7 wrote:

Warhammer 40k's Eldar/Dark Eldar/Necrons would obliterate any of these other fleets. Here's why:

1) Ship scale - Ships in the 40k universe are HUGE. The general consensus is that in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, Imperial Escort vessels are anywhere between 750 metres and 3 kilometres in length, Cruisers are anywhere between 5 and 6 kilometres long and Battleships anywhere between 6 and 8 kilometres, although several are MUCH larger. Alien ships are generally assumed to be of a similar scale. Craftworlds are planetoid size.

2) Numbers - A single Craftworld carries enough ships to challenge ME's allied fleet as far as raw numbers are concerned. Dark Eldar have exponentially more, and the Necrons (represented as a species) outnumber both of them put together.

3) Technology - All 3 races have been around for millions of years and have advanced to the point where they have weapons that ignore the laws of physics. 'Nuff said.

4) Defences - The shields on Eldar vessels I admittedly know very little about, but Dark Eldar and Necron ships are nigh-indestructible. Dark Eldar use a cloaking mechanism that has the unpleasent side effect of making them almost immune to direct hits ( In Battlefleet Gothic, a Shadow Field gives a 2+invulnerable throw even against a warp drive detonation at point blank range). There was also an incident where a few Necron frigates showed up near Sol and were able to land on Mars before they were destroyed. They were being fired upon by an entire battlefleet by the time they got to Saturn. That's a VERY long time to survive under that kind of firepower.

5) Offence - In addition to having excellent fighters, all three species have weapons that ignore physics and can cut through Imperial battleships with relative ease. Craftworlds have weapons that can turn a planet into glass at a moment's notice.

Unfortunately, the fluff has built in provisions whereas each of these species is so segmented for various reasons that they would never work together as a cohesive force. That said, a single Craftworld fleet can take on a Tyranid Hive fleet (Billions of ships) on its own.

As far as Star Trek goes, the only race that could stand up on its own outside of the fiction (disregarding the Q Continuum) is Species 8472.

@Pat Best - Guess again, kinetic barriers are effective against GARDIAN fire, which is a form of directed energy. You cannot have completely massless directed energy weapon without ignoring physics. Also, Reaper weapons use a stream of molten metal similar to the Thanix Cannon, they aren't directed energy.

That's not as big as you seem to think.
1) Sins cap ships are between 4 to 6 km in lentgh, Titans are 20-25km in length. Star bases, even larger. Although the empire's standard ISD is 1.6km in length, they do have super star destroyers which match the Titans from Sins.

2 )Both Sins and the Empire have fleets of absolute massive proportions. Fleets aside, Sins' planetary defenses alone can deal massive damage.

3) The same could be said of both Sins and Star Wars.

4) Advent, the ones with the best shields, can withstand massive firepower before their shields drop. One Radiance can take the fire of an entire fleet for an extended period of time before the shields fail. One would be foolish to ignore the shield regeneration abilities that would impact the efficiency of their shields as well.

5) The Death Star, the Novalith Cannon, the Kosturas Cannon, and the Deliverance engine say hi.

So please, before claiming your favorite franchise would win, make sure you know what you're talking about.

Pat Best wrote:

Avenger_7 wrote:

Warhammer 40k's Eldar/Dark Eldar/Necrons would obliterate any of these other fleets. Here's why:

1) Ship scale - Ships in the 40k universe are HUGE. The general consensus is that in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, Imperial Escort vessels are anywhere between 750 metres and 3 kilometres in length, Cruisers are anywhere between 5 and 6 kilometres long and Battleships anywhere between 6 and 8 kilometres, although several are MUCH larger. Alien ships are generally assumed to be of a similar scale. Craftworlds are planetoid size.

2) Numbers - A single Craftworld carries enough ships to challenge ME's allied fleet as far as raw numbers are concerned. Dark Eldar have exponentially more, and the Necrons (represented as a species) outnumber both of them put together.

3) Technology - All 3 races have been around for millions of years and have advanced to the point where they have weapons that ignore the laws of physics. 'Nuff said.

4) Defences - The shields on Eldar vessels I admittedly know very little about, but Dark Eldar and Necron ships are nigh-indestructible. Dark Eldar use a cloaking mechanism that has the unpleasent side effect of making them almost immune to direct hits ( In Battlefleet Gothic, a Shadow Field gives a 2+invulnerable throw even against a warp drive detonation at point blank range). There was also an incident where a few Necron frigates showed up near Sol and were able to land on Mars before they were destroyed. They were being fired upon by an entire battlefleet by the time they got to Saturn. That's a VERY long time to survive under that kind of firepower.

5) Offence - In addition to having excellent fighters, all three species have weapons that ignore physics and can cut through Imperial battleships with relative ease. Craftworlds have weapons that can turn a planet into glass at a moment's notice.

Unfortunately, the fluff has built in provisions whereas each of these species is so segmented for various reasons that they would never work together as a cohesive force. That said, a single Craftworld fleet can take on a Tyranid Hive fleet (Billions of ships) on its own.

As far as Star Trek goes, the only race that could stand up on its own outside of the fiction (disregarding the Q Continuum) is Species 8472.

@Pat Best - Guess again, kinetic barriers are effective against GARDIAN fire, which is a form of directed energy. You cannot have completely massless directed energy weapon without ignoring physics. Also, Reaper weapons use a stream of molten metal similar to the Thanix Cannon, they aren't directed energy.

That's not as big as you seem to think.
1) Sins cap ships are between 4 to 6 km in lentgh, Titans are 20-25km in length. Star bases, even larger. Although the empire's standard ISD is 1.6km in length, they do have super star destroyers which match the Titans from Sins.

2 )Both Sins and the Empire have fleets of absolute massive proportions. Fleets aside, Sins' planetary defenses alone can deal massive damage.

3) The same could be said of both Sins and Star Wars.

4) Advent, the ones with the best shields, can withstand massive firepower before their shields drop. One Radiance can take the fire of an entire fleet for an extended period of time before the shields fail. One would be foolish to ignore the shield regeneration abilities that would impact the efficiency of their shields as well.

5) The Death Star, the Novalith Cannon, the Kosturas Cannon, and the Deliverance engine say hi.

So please, before claiming your favorite franchise would win, make sure you know what you're talking about.

Sins and empire fleets do not number in the millions of capital ships. 40k's orbital defences are capable of turning most species' Battlecruisers into a heap of molten metal with a single shot, the ones defending Mars are even more powerful. The weapons on Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron ships IGNORE PHYSICS. Last time I checked, their penetrating power is far more than Sins and Star Wars weaponry. Turbolasers aren't as powerful as was stated, just look at the amount of damage they did to the yuuzhan vong ships once they bypassed their dovin bassals. Those ships are made of coral. A lot of 40k fiction puts ship sizes at up to 300km in length; Sins ships are also big, I didn't say that they aren't. But in comparison to most other franchises these ships are pretty much apocalyptic. And before you say I don't know what I'm talking about, my main source of information is the man who wrote most of this fluff - Phil Kelly. It would be interesting to see how well a Revenant would stand up to weaponry that tears apart space-time.

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Sins and empire fleets do not number in the millions of capital ships

You don't know this. It is currently impossible to determine the number of ships each whole faction has at any one moment in Sins. First because there is no real way to mesure it and second because ships are constantly being produced and lost.

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40k's orbital defences are capable of turning most species' Battlecruisers into a heap of molten metal with a single shot, the ones defending Mars are even more powerful. The weapons on Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron ships IGNORE PHYSICS. Last time I checked, their penetrating power is far more than Sins and Star Wars weaponry.

You can'y say that since you've provided no hard numbers of their destructive force.

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Most 40k fiction puts ship sizes at up to 300km in length, and Sins ships are also big, I didn't say that they aren't. I have to go now so I will finish rebuking you later tonight.

Fan fictions are not reliable sources of information. Last time we had a star wars vs X franchise argument, someone pointed out that one sith wiped out an entire galaxy with the force, which is more than anything can do. Luckily Last_Jedi_Standing pointed out that was false.
Besides, you said earlier the battleships were 6-8km in length.

Pat Best wrote:

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Sins and empire fleets do not number in the millions of capital ships

You don't know this. It is currently impossible to determine the number of ships each whole faction has at any one moment in Sins. First because there is no real way to mesure it and second because ships are constantly being produced and lost.

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40k's orbital defences are capable of turning most species' Battlecruisers into a heap of molten metal with a single shot, the ones defending Mars are even more powerful. The weapons on Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron ships IGNORE PHYSICS. Last time I checked, their penetrating power is far more than Sins and Star Wars weaponry.

You can'y say that since you've provided no hard numbers of their destructive force.

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Most 40k fiction puts ship sizes at up to 300km in length, and Sins ships are also big, I didn't say that they aren't. I have to go now so I will finish rebuking you later tonight.

Fan fictions are not reliable sources of information. Last time we had a star wars vs X franchise argument, someone pointed out that one sith wiped out an entire galaxy with the force, which is more than anything can do. Luckily Last_Jedi_Standing pointed out that was false.
Besides, you said earlier the battleships were 6-8km in length.

6-8 km is the general consensus among fans since there is a huge variation in the sizes published in official fiction, but it's universally agreed that imperial ships function as independent cities, complete with their own internal economies. I am basing capabilities off of observable effects rather than hard numbers because there aren't any official ones available for the 40k universe. Ship capabilities are shown by representative scales that appear to be logarithmic with a fairly large base.

The only endorsed fixed number I found is the size of the Ultramarines flagship, which is 12 km long. That's a Battle Barge, it's a mid sized ship with an incredible amount of firepower. It is also mentioned definitively that notable Imperial battleships can be absolutely massive.

Why doesnt 40K have a devoted wiki maintained by zealous fans like the rest of the franchises.

Avenger_7 wrote:

6-8 km is the general consensus among fans since there is a huge variation in the sizes published in official fiction, but it's universally agreed that imperial ships function as independent cities, complete with their own internal economies. I am basing capabilities off of observable effects rather than hard numbers because there aren't any official ones available for the 40k universe. Ship capabilities are shown by representative scales that appear to be logarithmic with a fairly large base.

See here's the problem.
If I base my arguments off of observable effects in Sins, then the Advent pack weapons that can wipe out thousands, if not millions of ships, in seconds to minutes. Their psychic abilities vastly surpass even what the Eldar have, they can literally toss your entire fleet about a solar system with their minds.

The Imperium Navy's Battlefleets, assigned to their smallest sectors consisting of a handful of star systems, comparable to your average mutli-star Sins map, only hold a total of 50 to 75 vessels, while sins factions will have hundreds each in the same stretch of space and the capacity to produce hundreds more. If we use this "observable" trait as a fact, then Sins factions outnumber the WH40K factions by a considerable amount.

Observably, the TEC's capacity for mass production would overwhelm any other faction in the matter of fielding ships. If they manage to build four star bases at the star of a system, that system will be overrun quickly.

Observably, I don't play the Vasari often enough because I never know what the crap they do that's so special. They have phase missiles which bypass shields, woohoo, kinda like the Necrons that bypass defenses.
Oh, they can also bring their star bases with their fleet, so instead of fighting just one fleet backed by a 20km big Titan, you've also got a 25+km heavily armored and armed star base to deal with.

Observably, the biggest most fortified planets have 6000 HP, where as capital ships often have a combined total of shield and hull points of around 8000, meaning they're tougher to kill than a planet. Titans and Star bases can go over 20 000 making them virtually indestructible unless your ships carry death stars with them, even then it would take several blasts.

Continuing on this 6000 Hp per planet observation, even the lightest frigate, while it cannot fire directly at a planet, deals at least a dozen points of damage per second, which in ship-to-ship combat translates to absolutely massive damage, 12 damage is 1 / 500th of the force required to wipe out all life on a large civilized and fortified planet.
500 of today's most powerful nuclear weapons would not be able to wipe out all life on Earth, meaing one disciple vessel, the cheapest and least efficient warship in the Advent arsenal, fires lasers more powerful than nuclear weapons, at minimum 50 megatons of concentrated destructive force per second is being inflicted from this one laser battery. ( ME's Dreadnought only punch out 38 kilotons every 2 seconds )
With weapons this powerful, this means the shields in Sins are absolutely godly since they can withstand sustained fire from tens if not hundreds of vessels packing weapons with equivalent or superior destructive force.

...this clearly rules any star trek vessel RIGHT out of this conflict.

ACH0225 wrote:

Why doesnt 40K have a devoted wiki maintained by zealous fans like the rest of the franchises.

Is this not sufficient?

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_40k_Wiki

Pat Best wrote:

ACH0225 wrote:

Why doesnt 40K have a devoted wiki maintained by zealous fans like the rest of the franchises.

Is this not sufficient?

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_40k_Wiki

There are several wikis devoted to 40k, but there isn't much consistent numerical information on navies. Try to find the Battlefleet Gothic rule book if you want the relative numbers, it's a free download from the Games Workshop website under Specialty Games.

Also keep in mind that the Imperium has a lot more space to patrol than the SoaSE factions do, and that the last time they tried to take out a Craftworld they used 6 battlefleets and suffered 95% casualties.

Avenger_7 wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

ACH0225 wrote:

Why doesnt 40K have a devoted wiki maintained by zealous fans like the rest of the franchises.

Is this not sufficient?

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_40k_Wiki

There are several wikis devoted to 40k, but there isn't much consistent numerical information on navies. Try to find the Battlefleet Gothic rule book if you want the relative numbers, it's a free download from the Games Workshop website under Specialty Games.

Also keep in mind that the Imperium has a lot more space to patrol than the SoaSE factions do, and that the last time they tried to take out a Craftworld they used 6 battlefleets and suffered 95% casualties.

Again you can't know that since there is absolutely no way of knowing just how many worlds SoaSE factions keep watch over. All we know is that both the TEC and the Advent are millenia-old empires which expand aggressively and that the Vasari are much older than both and once had the biggest empire ever known. For both the TEC and Advent who expand continuously in all directions, to have never had contact with the Vasari or remnants of their empire, before the first Sins game in terms of lore probably means that their massive empire was located in another galaxy entirely. So we're talking about empires that span over not one but several galaxies.

During the 30 years of war, an innumerable number of worlds were lost, conquered, lost again and so on and still each faction pushes forwards.

Basically, not only are you making assumptions out of debatable non-official facts from the WH40K universe, but you're also making misinformed assumptions of the Sins universe with no basis at all.

Also, I added a bunch of "observable" information in my post above.

Pat Best wrote:

Avenger_7 wrote:

Pat Best wrote:

ACH0225 wrote:

Why doesnt 40K have a devoted wiki maintained by zealous fans like the rest of the franchises.

Is this not sufficient?

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_40k_Wiki

There are several wikis devoted to 40k, but there isn't much consistent numerical information on navies. Try to find the Battlefleet Gothic rule book if you want the relative numbers, it's a free download from the Games Workshop website under Specialty Games.

Also keep in mind that the Imperium has a lot more space to patrol than the SoaSE factions do, and that the last time they tried to take out a Craftworld they used 6 battlefleets and suffered 95% casualties.

Again you can't know that since there is absolutely no way of knowing just how many worlds SoaSE factions keep watch over. All we know is that both the TEC and the Advent are millenia-old empires which expand aggressively and that the Vasari are much older than both and once had the biggest empire ever known. For both the TEC and Advent who expand continuously in all directions, to have never had contact with the Vasari or remnants of their empire, before the first Sins game in terms of lore probably means that their massive empire was located in another galaxy entirely. So we're talking about empires that span over not one but several galaxies.

During the 30 years of war, an innumerable number of worlds were lost, conquered, lost again and so on and still each faction pushes forwards.

Basically, not only are you making assumptions out of debatable non-official facts from the WH40K universe, but you're also making misinformed assumptions of the Sins universe with no basis at all.

Also, I added a bunch of "observable" information in my post above.

I will admit that I don't know that much about the Sins universe, just the very basic lore behind it. And did you not read my earlier post? I have actually discussed this with the man who wrote the fiction for these species. All my other facts about 40k come from the hardcover rulebook and the respective codex for each species. And observably, the health scales in Sins are scaled like they are in BFG - although destroying a planet is very difficult in BFG due to the fact that you need to be able to blow it up with a single shot. Any Imperial ship is capable of performing Exterminatus on a planet surface, but the resilience of a planet can't be accurately measured in the same way as cruiser health. There is also no way to accurately portray the true numbers of the Eldar or the Necrons, as is stated in their individual codices. As for your 20km long titan or 25km starbase, have a 3000km long Craftworld or an equally large Throne Ship. Although the Dark Eldar have nothing this size, their ships have other abilities like truly unbelievable speed and weapons. And oh, yes, I almost forgot that the Dark Eldar have a device (In the Apocalypse Expansion book) that can temporarily disable enemy shields in coordination with their firing systems. All I really know about Necron ships is that they are nearly indestructible, technologically advanced beyond mortal reckoning, have the ability to link their weapons for greater destructive power, and some of them are pretty damn big by Imperial standards.

Also, none of them use regular naval tactics. Since they're so far ahead of the other 40k races as far as the quality of their ships (and the quality of their tacticians: Eldar foresight, http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imotekh#.T7CRYesV1DQ and http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vect#.T7CRdOsV1DQ), they can attempt maneuvers other navies cannot.

TL;DR the health of a planet means nothing, 20km is not that big, your numbers mean nothing, the 40k races have several extremely deadly abilities, and after watching a few Sins games, these particular 40k races have far superior tactics.

P.S. Let's not forget the Necron device that allows them to remotely destroy stars at will (it's in their codex)...that's a pretty good representation of the level of their technology.

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As for your 20km long titan or 25km starbase, have a 3000km long Craftworld or an equally large Throne Ship. Although the Dark Eldar have nothing this size, their ships have other abilities like truly unbelievable speed and weapons. And oh, yes, I almost forgot that the Dark Eldar have a device (In the Apocalypse Expansion book) that can temporarily disable enemy shields in coordination with their firing systems. All I really know about Necron ships is that they are nearly indestructible, technologically advanced beyond mortal reckoning, have the ability to link their weapons for greater destructive power, and some of them are pretty damn big by Imperial standards.

That's 20 km long TitanS, as in SEVERAL of them. As well as star bases, as many as two for every planet and up to five at each star. Your one 3000km ship will make a nice target for the Novalith cannons.
A device that can temporarily disable enemy ships? Every Advent star base has one of those. as well as the Domina Subjugators and the Revelation Battlecruisers.
Linking your weapons? Advent fleet synergy is unmatched, the more ships you bring the stronger each individual one gets. Same goes for their defensive structures and shields.
Tactics? I'm guessing the guys who were playing in the couple of games you watched didn't have much tactics and kept it to making one big fleet and charging into enemy territory. The tactics that can be used in Sins are limited only by the player's imagination.

And no, the numbers mean nothing, that was my point EXACTLY. I could argue that, since planets need to be killed with their own specific kind of anti-planet weapon, they could have set the planet's health accordingly so that you can compare it to your ship and increase the damage of the anti-planet weapons but they didn't and so the argument stands. But no, I'm not trying to argue the strength of Sins' weapons, I'm trying to argue that observational evidence is not fact. Even without the numbers, as I've said, the Advent can wipe out entire armadas in seconds across several hundred million kilometers, that's interplanetary range.
Any lone Capital ship can perform a planetary bombing by itself, or even smaller specialized siege frigates.

This is all senseless argument because in the end, neither of us have any HARD FACTS to back up our claims.

...except for that one ability to wipe out or severely cripple any number of ships within hundreds of millions of kilometers, that one's a fact.

Besides, I CAN use the planet's health pool to determine ship weapon strength because in the end, it's not the planet that's being killed, it's the population and infrastructures on the planet that are being wiped out.

These infrastructures, as I have stated, are at their most reinforced state when at 6000 HP, made of the same stuff as your ships, if not tougher since you're not limited by having to carry your protection around with you in space.

So it takes 6000 points of damage to wipe out all population and cities from a planet, once again not something that could be done with 500 of today's nuclear weapons and the argument still stands.

With the weapon strength argument still standing, that leaves the shield strength argument also standing. One small frigate can pump out over 50 megatons of destructive force per second and shield and hull armor can withstand it several times over.

What about Stargate? I read as much of the various walls of text as I could, but I definitely couldn't be bothered with all of it. The Goa'uld would be beaten fairly easily: they have hundreds of Hat'ak ships, with respectable defensive and offensive capabilities, but they would be too busy fighting among each other to be a threat to anyone but primitive societies. Against the Empire:

Similar sizes in terms of number of ships.
Excluding Anubis (who isn't really a Goa'uld), they Empire is probably more advanced technologically.
Goa'uld have as much mo-jo, that's for certain. The Emperor and Anubis are so similar character-wise, it's almost funny. I mean, just look:

Spoiler:

Overall results: The Empire would win. Anyone care to defend?

Discuss this, have another argument, then I'll throw in the Replicators and the Alterans.

Let's throw the Shivans into this ! SSD Lucifer has a gun that destroy planets like the Death Star and it's only 2km in length. The SJ Satanas is destroying stars with their own gravity, and there are like 1000 if them. It chews capships for breakfast with the same main cannons. You may destroy one of them but instead of 1 2 will come. Their highlight will probably be the ability to appear from nowhere. Maybe if the empire will collect all it's troops in one point to hold off the invasion, the same Satanas class can collapse stars to create new jump points, allowing the Shivans to evade blockades and strike where it hurts. They are also quite versatile. The Shivans will use the same technology for hundreds of years as long as it works, but when it fails (like it happened in the first Shivan incursion) they develop new technology faster than we can imagine, it also means producing ships faster than we could imagine. Best solution for defeating the Shivans so far was collapsing jump nodes on their way, locking them out of your systems, but this solution is only temporally, too. Besides the Empire lost to a bunch of rebels .

If all those evil thingies will collide together it's gonna be a hell of a show ! I actually though someone like tiel should invite the Reapers .

Iv121 wrote:

Let's throw the Shivans into this ! SSD Lucifer has a gun that destroy planets like the Death Star and it's only 2km in length. The SJ Satanas is destroying stars with their own gravity, and there are like 1000 if them. It chews capships for breakfast with the same main cannons. You may destroy one of them but instead of 1 2 will come. Their highlight will probably be the ability to appear from nowhere. Maybe if the empire will collect all it's troops in one point to hold off the invasion, the same Satanas class can collapse stars to create new jump points, allowing the Shivans to evade blockades and strike where it hurts. They are also quite versatile. The Shivans will use the same technology for hundreds of years as long as it works, but when it fails (like it happened in the first Shivan incursion) they develop new technology faster than we can imagine, it also means producing ships faster than we could imagine. Best solution for defeating the Shivans so far was collapsing jump nodes on their way, locking them out of your systems, but this solution is only temporally, too. Besides the Empire lost to a bunch of rebels .

If all those evil thingies will collide together it's gonna be a hell of a show ! I actually though someone like tiel should invite the Reapers .

So we have this massive 10-way battle between the most powerful races ever. Awesome!!!

We should let the Replicators pick off any survivors.

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f all those evil thingies will collide together it's gonna be a hell of a show ! I actually though someone like tiel should invite the Reapers Smile .

It takes the combined fire of three alliance dreadnoughts to bring down one reaper's defenses and eventually kill it. Each dreadnought punches out a slug dealing 38 kilotons of damage every 2 seconds, so 19 kilotons every second. Triple it and it takes 57 kilotons of sustained firepower to kill a reaper.

Now a single Advent Disciple Vessel frigate deals out more than 50 megatons every second, roughly 1000 times more than three dreadnoughts can do, and 330 times more than you need to kill a Reaper.
From what I understand, you can expect the same kind of firepower from Star Wars ships.

The Reapers would get torn apart.

Also, I don't believe the Star Gate factions would be any more successful here, since they still mostly rely on current or slightly advanced versions of weapons we have today.

The Replicators? Vasari will laugh at their primitive nano technology.

Besides, the ship sizes are not comparable, human battlecruisers, or the X-304, is only a couple hundred meters long, and they're pretty much the same size as Goa'uld ships. Only Ori and Wraith ships are noticeably larger than those.

Uh you forgot the Shivans, and reapers take control of your mind, you loose .

Iv121 wrote:

Uh you forgot the Shivans, and reapers take control of your mind, you loose .

Aren't the Shivans a race you invented?

Also, no, the Reapers TRY to take over your mind and you need to be in close proximity to then for extended periods of time for it to even have a chance at working. They won't survive long enough under the fire from Sins ships for it to work.
Indoctrination, unless made directly by one of those spiky things, takes several days, or even weeks, and can be resisted. The Cerberus crew working inside a reaper were slowly converted over the course of their time inside the reaper, and Shepard, at the end of ME3, undergoes the indoctrination process and can resist it.

Not to mention the Advent are the most powerful psychics out of any of these franchises and their telepathic will can be used in unison with all of the Unity, crushing the poor Reaper's attempt at mind control and possibly even taking control of the Reaper itself.

Reapers lose, end of story.

Uh aren't the Asari the most advanced psionic beings in mass effect ? Remember how they ended up ?
And I guess there is a reason they erase all advanced life forms every 50,000 years or stuff ?

Actually why I protect the reapers ? The shivans are my adorable villains that plan to destroy the world .