Sins of a Solar Empire ( and a bit of ME3 )

Better example yet, if you were to focus-fire the Radiance Battleship Kayra's Fury, the Flagship of my fleet, then you're doing the worst thing ever, because that ship has the strongest shields and armor around and is built exactly for the purpose of taking hits.

In fact, it absorbs the energy from your attacks and converts it into antimatter so it can use its own abilities more often.

Hell, it even has an ability that FORCES you to fire at it.

Not only that but the rest of my fleet is built specifically for the purpose of absorbing hits and not letting anything die, so if you're firing at the strongest ship in my fleet, you'll die before it does.

In fact, Senar tried that in the last game.

His fleet warped into orbit of a planet we were attacking and he managed to catch the Kayra's Fury alone, far off from any other ship.

His entire, sizeable fleet fired at it for almost a minute before the rest of my ships joined with it, and the shields did not fail. ( still had about 500-800 shields left ).

Not to mention that, even if you did bring it down, at the cost of your entire fleet, I could just ressurect it and it would be back up on the front line within moments.

Advent seem infallible; the Vasari only have one counter to them and it's pretty crappy, to say the least.

Tiel wrote:

Advent seem infallible; the Vasari only have one counter to them and it's pretty crappy, to say the least.

That's what a thousand years of unhindered technological progress will do to you.

No laws, no morals, nothing to prevent science from moving forwards.

The Vasari, on the other hand, have been running away from we-don't-know-what for 10 000 years, that has got to take a toll on a civilization.

I must say I really like the idea of ressurecting entire capital ships.

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/409298

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sneak peak at the idiocy therein:

Quote :

They say it takes skill to win as Vasari but i dont get that at all. Its BS. They have all the ship specs and best weapons in game a standard fleet configuration that pawns. So what if a Vasari player gets countered- they still survive with all the hull points, hard to down bombers and repairing going on -EARLY GAME!

Tiel wrote:

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/409298

ಠ_ಠ

sneak peak at the idiocy therein:

Quote :

They say it takes skill to win as Vasari but i dont get that at all. Its BS. They have all the ship specs and best weapons in game a standard fleet configuration that pawns. So what if a Vasari player gets countered- they still survive with all the hull points, hard to down bombers and repairing going on -EARLY GAME!

Yeah well don't try that one me cause I know my Halcyon carriers are made for one thing : fighter superiority, and that my basic carriers hold more squadrons than yours. You try to bomb me at range, it won't work.

You get in close range and you're dealing with my Battleships and Illuminators with multitarget

Edit: Oy, quit reading that, it's gonna give you bad ideas!

Vasari are the weakest in 1.34, I think. That post was probably before a patch.

My question is how do I get rid of bombers? The post claims Sentinels are pretty damn powerful, but that's very far from the truth. Slow ROF and lack of 360 degree attacks makes it essentially a floating brick.

Now, Ironclad claims that the Vasari are hit n' run, but how the heck can you run when there's 20 bomber squadrons blowing your caps to kingdom come in as little as two strafing runs? And then there's the fact that the basic frigates cost twice as much as the other race's without providing a significant firepower or armor gain.

Tiel wrote:

sneak peak at the idiocy therein:

Quote :

They say it takes skill to win as Vasari but i dont get that at all. Its BS. They have all the ship specs and best weapons in game a standard fleet configuration that pawns. So what if a Vasari player gets countered- they still survive with all the hull points, hard to down bombers and repairing going on -EARLY GAME!

...hull repair? Radiance Battleship -> burn the energy - > win. The Vasari's Devastator had the same problem for me before I started burning energy, it would regenerate its own shields.

No more of that, thanks.

Well I know Vasari have good mobility, the ability to jump to any planet they want ignoring phase lanes, as well as removing phase jump distortion effects.

I can't really comment on the Sentinel, I've never studied the craft. Both the TEC's and Advent's flak frigates have 360 coverage since they have small turrets on all sides. Is it not the same for the Sentinel?

If not, then you really would have to rely on a combination of both Sentinels and carriers with fighters.

Maybe they pop out?

Maybe it fires waves or something, Vasari weapons are not as obvious to spot as Advent or TEC.

They're missiles, so I think they track their targets to emulate the 360 effect. To be honest, I've never actually seen the thing fire, even after duking it out with two Halcyons, so I'm led to believe that these missiles go into phase space after launching, then come back in up the pilots's afterburners.

What negates the whole 'go wherever the hell you want' effect, is that you must have nodes in place before even thinking of going there. Naturally, nodes require planets. And planets require a big fleet to conquer. The whole point of nodes is to defend the entire front line with a small group of ships, but what's the point of that if you have enough to capture the planets to begin with?

Tiel wrote:

They're missiles, so I think they track their targets to emulate the 360 effect. To be honest, I've never actually seen the thing fire, even after duking it out with two Halcyons, so I'm led to believe that these missiles go into phase space after launching, then come back in up the pilots's afterburners.

What negates the whole 'go wherever the hell you want' effect, is that you must have nodes in place before even thinking of going there. Naturally, nodes require planets. And planets require a big fleet to conquer. The whole point of nodes is to defend the entire front line with a small group of ships, but what's the point of that if you have enough to capture the planets to begin with?

Capturing and holding is not the same.

For example: You could attack Senar's planet at one end of your empire till his superior fleet arrives. Once it's there, you fall back, immediately jump to a planet at the other end of your empire, and from there attack another of Senar's planets which will take him forever to reach. By the time his superior fleet reaches, you've captured it and established enough defenses ( repair stations, missile platforms and a starbase ) to outgun his fleet.

Another good use is being able to instantly jump to defend any planet under your control.


Hell me and a friend of mine had it done to us by a hard AI Vasari who had a fleet bigger than any of ours ( but not both of ours combined ). All our ships were at one end of the star systems, he jumped to the other and attacked us from behind.

Unluckily for him, though, he ran into six fully upgraded military starbases and his fleet got shredded.

Pat (the) Best wrote:

Tiel wrote:

They're missiles, so I think they track their targets to emulate the 360 effect. To be honest, I've never actually seen the thing fire, even after duking it out with two Halcyons, so I'm led to believe that these missiles go into phase space after launching, then come back in up the pilots's afterburners.

What negates the whole 'go wherever the hell you want' effect, is that you must have nodes in place before even thinking of going there. Naturally, nodes require planets. And planets require a big fleet to conquer. The whole point of nodes is to defend the entire front line with a small group of ships, but what's the point of that if you have enough to capture the planets to begin with?

For example: You could attack Senar's planet at one end of your empire till his superior fleet arrives. Once it's there, you fall back, immediately jump to a planet at the other end of your empire, and from there attack another of Senar's planets which will take him forever to reach. By the time his superior fleet reaches, you've captured it and established enough defenses ( repair stations, missile platforms and a starbase ) to outgun his fleet.
.

Well, there's the problem. Phase space through these makeshift lanes is slower, so much so that you need to upgrade it to get the speeds normal lanes would provide. By the time my harassment fleet gets to the other end to set up another attack, Senar's fleet would have already warped to the planet I came back to and decimated it. I can see how this would work against new players to instigate paranoia and fear, but against an AI/hard player this tactic is as good as futile.

But let's say I do take the planet anyway. I am now likely surrounded by three or more phase lanes that cannot be easily defended, and my main fleet is probably engaging the enemy 'power' fleet to the last ship. Essentially, all Senar needs to do is construct a few combat cruisers and a couple carriers and send them my way. I'm assuming that my harrasing fleet is lightly armored and such to maximize speed and not draw too many resources from my main fleet. Threat ended. If I DO happen to have a few powerful ships in there, than likely my main fleet doesn't have those to defend against Senar's superior fleet, and thus my empire will be systematically destroyed.

Really, unless you have a few special ships to serve as temporary nodes, the only usage for this is, as I said and you said, to maximize defense. But, let me whine about that too. The Vasari are hit and run, and are not suited for head on combat. That much can be drawn from my butt getting kicked by both a normal AI or a few of Shiva's frigates, excluding my noobish ways as a factor for defeat. Today, defending against Seran cost me half my ships every time it mounted an assault against me. The tactic here is to hit them before they hit you.

Gah, I really need to make an outing to quitcherbitchen

My point is, Vasari aren't the most conventional race and the odds don't always stack in their favor as insinuated in the link I posted.

Quote :

That much can be drawn from my butt getting kicked by both a normal AI or a few of Shiva's frigates, excluding my noobish ways as a factor for defeat. Today, defending against Seran cost me half my ships every time it mounted an assault against me. The tactic here is to hit them before they hit you.

Funny, I recall you holding your ground quite soundly against Shiva.

Well if you have time we could play a 1v1 with me as the Vasari to see if I can make any sense of it. (Because, really, it's not just that I'm good with the Advent, it's that I'm good at analysing problems, weaknesses, solutions and strenghts. Given enough time as Vasari, I could probably figure something out )


Or a 2v1 hard comp.

Pat (the) Best wrote:

Quote :

That much can be drawn from my butt getting kicked by both a normal AI or a few of Shiva's frigates, excluding my noobish ways as a factor for defeat. Today, defending against Seran cost me half my ships every time it mounted an assault against me. The tactic here is to hit them before they hit you.

Funny, I recall you holding your ground quite soundly against Shiva.

Holding ground, yes. A constant flow of frigates assured that. But had the match gone on longer without your intervention, she would've eventually pushed me back since it was nigh impossible to take the next planet.

Tiel wrote:

Pat (the) Best wrote:

Quote :

That much can be drawn from my butt getting kicked by both a normal AI or a few of Shiva's frigates, excluding my noobish ways as a factor for defeat. Today, defending against Seran cost me half my ships every time it mounted an assault against me. The tactic here is to hit them before they hit you.

Funny, I recall you holding your ground quite soundly against Shiva.

Holding ground, yes. A constant flow of frigates assured that. But had the match gone on longer without your intervention, she would've eventually pushed me back since it was nigh impossible to take the next planet.

Ah, but that is where your single-mindedness was misleading you. While her capital was heavily defended, there were two other planets at your mercy, an asteroid and a sand planet.


Don't know if "single-mindedness" was the right choice of words here...

Anyways, I'm saying you kept going for her homeworld despite the other two planets you could have hit, which she was not prepared for.

Tiel wrote:

Not sure what to make of this.

Game or no game?

Tomorrow? Tonight's a school night for me xP

Tiel wrote:

Tomorrow? Tonight's a school night for me xP

I suppose.

That or I land a Radiance on your school.

Mainly because I hadn't got around to forting up my outliers. Capital/ Choke points first, then everyone else.

Having three frigate factories in one system is a definite plus to production speed, methinks. I'm also now quite convinced that naming my Radiance battleship Hermione is a bad omen, as she always seems to die before she gets really nasty, unless I'm playing against a really stupid AI. Ginevra, my Progenitor, however, really doesn't die unless I get really unlucky. Or she's in Hermione's presence. Then she dies. Ugh, I need a Halcyon to cover them... name her Angelina or Honor. Either works...

I thought you're supposed to put up a hell of a defense on the front line, so your enemy can't get to your undefended core worlds? Meh, time to adjust my tactics yet again

That's how most people would think.

However, since I started playing against idiot Vasari, I discovered that's a fairly bad idea. The better one is to fort up the choke points leading into your empire (and your capital), and move outward from there.

All the while hammering them with frigates and capships to keep them offbalance and not thinking about going anywhere near your worlds.

All the while dumping resources into researching newer, better beams, lasers and shields. Oh, and starbase-stuff.

Shiva wrote:

That's how most people would think.

However, since I started playing against idiot Vasari,

Shiva wrote:

I discovered that's a fairly bad idea. The better one is to fort up the choke points leading into your empire (and your capital), and move outward from there. Oh, and starbase-stuff.

That's what I meant, find the best points to minimize the defense fleet you need and deploy them there; this is especially true for the Vasari with unlimited warping. And ofc starbase. I <3 my starbases, even if they do look like sins of a solar empire.