Futurecraft Forums

A forum dedicated to communication and innovation!
 
HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Welcome, one and all, to the Futurecraft Forums!

Share | 
 

 Space bubbles revisited

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
fr0stbyte124
Super Developrator
Super Developrator
avatar

Posts : 1835
Join date : 2011-10-13

PostSubject: Space bubbles revisited   Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:26 pm

Last thing I proposed for unified velocities didn't work out.  So here is a new idea, more or less stolen from EVE (again).

I can't find the original article, or even if it still works this way, but back in the day, a star system was made up of bubbles of real space which could only be traversed by warp.  It's a big, but finite space, and everything inside that bubble can interact with everything else.  If someone tries to leave under impulse, the bubble would keep expanding past its initial parameters, but would collapse if the ship left the area.

If we used bubbles, everything inside the bubble would by default have the same frame of reference.  Any ship entering from warp would arrive at the edge, traveling at normal impulse.  If you are outside the bubble, you can observe, but not directly interact with, things inside the bubble.  If you wanted to fight at a distance, you might be able to drop mines or launch smart missiles into the bubble, but otherwise they are untouchable until you enter.

Every object with mass produces a bubble, and the more mass in an area, the larger the bubble expands.  If two large fleets engage one another, they will start out at a long distance from one another.  Same goes for planets.  If a satellite is within the bubble of a planet, it will be geostationary.  If outside, its bubble will have a natural orbit.

If a single ship goes to warp, or a fleet is synchronized, they can move their bubble through space at FTL speeds (probably not actually FTL, because the whole solar system is scaled down).  If there are objects which aren't synchronized, such as natural objects or enemy ships, the fleet must move far enough away for the bubble to split naturally, or split the bubble by force.  How easy this is would depend on a number of factors, such as mass, velocity, and warp power and other technologies being used.

When two bubbles collide, the one that was there first wins and the other bubble joins that frame of reference.  If both are moving, a new bubble is formed from the weighted sum of the two bubbles (though natural satellites will always win so that their orbit is not thrown off).  If we introduce artificial friction, that will take care of debris and rogue space objects from leaving their bubble on their own, so we are only left with warp-capable vessels making the transition.



This method may need some refinement, but it solves a lot of problems and simplifies navigation and interaction.  Ship interactions will always be at practical velocities and practical distances, and ships will have no trouble keeping up with planets and satellites even with finite top speeds.  Plus, the gravity wells provide a convenient in-universe explanation for why the physics work the way they do.

Additionally, this could lead to interesting new game mechanics.  For instance, you could set an ambush in an asteroid belt where there is too much interference ships to flee, or special systems might have a large amount of dark matter throwing off the warp drive, so you are limited to using roads blazed by surveyors or traveling to making the trip via impulse drives.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ACH0225
General
General
avatar

Posts : 2346
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : I might be somewhere, I might not.

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:41 pm

Lets say fleet A has just gone to warp. If it is heading to some random point-doesn't matter where-and some ship of mine waits in there path, can my 1 ship slow a fleet? Or would the ship be grabbed by the bubble and taken along? Lets say my ship has some FTL disruptor. If fleet B is en route, and is arriving at where fleet A stopped just as fleet A is able to jump away, will fleet A need to slow down because of B? Or will B be taken along?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
fr0stbyte124
Super Developrator
Super Developrator
avatar

Posts : 1835
Join date : 2011-10-13

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:01 pm

I'll revise it a bit, then. Natural objects will always be stationary anchors. Objects with warp drives can always be moved.

A single ship will slow down a fleet, but not by much. For the most part, the single ship has just been dragged off by the big fleet's bubble. An FTL disrupter would probably slow the bubble's travel through space and increase the difficulty of ships escaping.

In your 2 fleet scenario, the arriving fleet B would come out of warp at the edge of the fleet A's bubble, but upon arriving their added mass expands the bubble so that neither party is at the edge. A small scout wouldn't expand the bubble significantly, so it could pop in and out with ease, but a large fleet would be committed to the encounter.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ACH0225
General
General
avatar

Posts : 2346
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : I might be somewhere, I might not.

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:39 pm

But if B arrived as A was leaving, would A be able to leave immediately, or would they be forced to confront B?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
fr0stbyte124
Super Developrator
Super Developrator
avatar

Posts : 1835
Join date : 2011-10-13

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:26 pm

If B comes in contact, A would be force to confront, because in that moment the warp threshold would suddenly become much higher.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hierarch Fenway
DEV
DEV
avatar

Posts : 1196
Join date : 2011-10-26
Location : |]||o|{o}-H--X-)|(

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:14 pm

So say a large fleet jumps by a small merchant ship. Would that mean the merchant would be dragged off in the direction of the fleet, because of the bubbles interacting? Kind of like the tail-wind from a moving vehicle, for example. It may slightly alter the course of the ship based on it's mass, so a fighter would be buffeted around while a dreadnought might not move at all, for example.

A powerful-enough FTL disruptor would essentially slow the bubble's movement down enough to force it to transition to impulse, allowing for another fleet to intercept it.

And what about catching up with one? Say Fleet A just escaped, which was bigger, and Fleet B ends up at the edge of the bubble, so they immediately jump away. Their warp speed is faster, so their bubble intercepts it. Would both fleets be pulled out of FTL because of the interception and added mass, or would they both continue on at their respective velocities, with fleet B eventually splitting the bubble again?

Also- Black holes. The bubble system would allow for these objects to exist, since they wouldn't eat up things outside the bubble. Anything that enters their bubble is subject to their gravity, which WILL pull them in- Gravity sucks. Though, of course, the most valuable deposits of stuff are orbiting close to them.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
fr0stbyte124
Super Developrator
Super Developrator
avatar

Posts : 1835
Join date : 2011-10-13

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:36 am

I had assumed fleet bubbles would continue moving at FTL speeds even if two crashed into one another, but now that I think of it, it would be really embarrassing if all of them flew into the sun because they couldn't change their course once the fleets merged. Maybe it would be better for all non-synchronized bubbles to be stationary or in a stable orbit.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Buggy1997123
DEV
DEV
avatar

Posts : 393
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Somewhere, somewhen.

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:46 am

Ahhh, yes. The complex art of Grid-Fu. If your looking into this technique still, heres a extreme detailed guide to its mechanics, methoids, and especially how to exploit it for maximum effectiveness. I'd just like to point out, that in Eve Online, CCP actually started to ban for use of Grid-Fu. CCP being a company that literally doesn't care in the slightest what players do ingame so long as they don't outright hack or Real Money Trade.
As in, griefing? Ok.
Scamming? Welcome to EVE.
Infiltration of alliances resulting in the destruction or theft of upwards of 10000+ dollars equivelent ISK and assets? Neat, maybe someone will write a article about it.
Grid-Fu? Temp ban, and don't do it again.
Its just that awesomely overpowered.
Anyway, link for ya: go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0912/gridfumanual2.pdf

_________________

Atomic Rockets, your one stop shop for all your rocket-sciency needs.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
fr0stbyte124
Super Developrator
Super Developrator
avatar

Posts : 1835
Join date : 2011-10-13

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:27 am

Awesome! I've actually been looking for this document for months but I could never find it. The EVE grid is mostly what I was basing it off of, but it had been years since I read about it it and I couldn't remember how CCP did it.
This is very helpful.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Buggy1997123
DEV
DEV
avatar

Posts : 393
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Somewhere, somewhen.

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:40 pm

fr0stbyte124 wrote:
Awesome! I've actually been looking for this document for months but I could never find it. The EVE grid is mostly what I was basing it off of, but it had been years since I read about it it and I couldn't remember how CCP did it.
This is very helpful.
Glad to help!

_________________

Atomic Rockets, your one stop shop for all your rocket-sciency needs.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Schmetterling
DEV
DEV
avatar

Posts : 3123
Join date : 2011-08-31
Location : I'm a butterfly.

PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:44 am

So much for the laws of physics.

_________________



Noli timere tenebras quam lucem, id est tortor.


Spoiler:
 



Mackeroth est abiit. Hinc abiit, et misit me in profundum subconscious!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Space bubbles revisited   

Back to top Go down
 
Space bubbles revisited
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Sending keys: Ctrl + Space
» Review: Dead Space Extraction (Wii Retail)
» No plans for Dead Space 3 on WiiU
» I need these colors changed
» jan's graphics

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Futurecraft Forums :: Development :: Idea Center-
Jump to: