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 A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."

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Do you believe posting a thread with similar contents to a dead existing one is spamming ?
Yes
7%
 7% [ 1 ]
No
93%
 93% [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 14
 

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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:00 pm

I put a vote to demonstrate you my point. You are welcome to vote yes as you believe in.

My arguments against are:

Iv121 wrote:
- Making a similar thread to one already existing is not a spam (unlike your multiple planetside threads) and therefore it doesn't hurt any rights of the forum members.

Spam=Useless. A post about a topic that already has a thread is useless and thus, spam. My proposal involves giving points for this offense in particular.

Iv121 wrote:
- Even if you find this true I do not think a ban and public humiliation is the correct punishment for such a minor to non-existent offense

I do not know if you have read the proposal in its entirety, but the threshold of points that results in a ban is fairly generous. One point would not get a user banned, I believe the number is 8 or 12. So no, unless you're deadset on 'giving it to the man', creating a duplicate thread is not the highway to a suspension.

As far as public humiliation goes, I don't...really...see where this..comes in..at all? You act like someone's going to be stripped butt nekkid and then flogged in front of everyone. The distribution of points is not and never will be a fulcrum point of gossip...I sincerely doubt anyone else but the offender really would care in any case. Discrimination based on this will be dealt with harshly on the basis of it being a personal insult.

Iv121 wrote:
- The Search option is flawed and if used ordinary doesn't give the necessary results.

Forum is broken to some extent. Again, site:futurecraft.forumotion.com <topic>. Quick and easy.

Iv121 wrote:
- Searching for threads even though taking a short time is annoying and causes more harm than help. Yes that's right, making a new thread with contents similar to one existing is less harmful than even searching for a thread.

This is subjective.

Iv121 wrote:
- There is no law forbidding laziness. We are here for free talk and not to enforce thousands of laws and make people feel uncomfortable.

Okay, again, hyperboles. We currently have nine rules, and this one is an ADDENDUM to one that already exists.
As far as feeling uncomfortable...how? You have the right to create a topic, that goes without saying. This also means you are held accountable for it should you choose to abuse your privileges here. Again, your exaggerations here really make it hard for me to take you seriously in this case.

Iv121 wrote:
- Besides help topics this system is not implemented in any other forum for a reason. how many "Obsidian tools" mods there are on the minecrft forums you think ?

What?

Iv121 wrote:

Also your extremism somehow pushes me away , I really don't wanna end up in a hearing with the Tiel that talking here so I better behave well Smile . By extremism I mean your saying about laziness and imbalanced punishment.

I have already addressed the matters that concern you, but I feel the need to note that times have changed. In the past this forum has been very laidback and disorderly. Nothing is wrong with the former, were it not the direct catalyst of the latter. You can expect the rules to be a lot less selectively enforced than before, but this doesn't necessarily mean that the forum is under a communist regime with Tiel as Comrade Stalin Smile

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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:06 pm

Can you give your pros for adding the system ?
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:06 pm

Tiel you are being annoying give it up.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:11 pm

Iv121 wrote:
Can you give your pros for adding the system ?

You're the one challenging the proposal here. I'd like to see some serious cons of giving people points for creating duplicate topics.

Also, I see some other members feel as you do. People, Iv made this thread to discuss the proposal. Feel free to add some form of comment regarding your choice in the current poll and the proposal's.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:30 am

Not really. Im the defendant, and I should prove nothing, it is you who should show us the logic behind your proposal.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:38 am

Not really. You're the one that made this thread to dispute the proposal, I'm the one defending it. If anything you're the plaintiff.

It's more of a 'why not' thing to me, really. I don't see any reason to put down a notion to punish threads that are essentially spam, so...

As far as I can tell your qualms lie in the punishment of posts you don't think have committed any wrong. Alright. You say my Planetside 2 threads were spam, correct? What differentiated them from the other duplicate topics we have had I not been the one that posted them?

e: Also, going to give the poll a day more or so to run. Vote now or forever hold your peace.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:10 am

Not really. I call for a NEW vote. If the voters stand in the same place you have nothing to be afraid of right ? This vote will take place in this thread as it contains all arguments for and against (you can edit my poll) . If it's impossible in another public thread where people are free to express their thoughts.

In addition I insist that I'm the defendant. You come to offend my rights, I want to hear your reasons for it. The difference between your planetside spam and the SoSE thread is that the later was dead for quite a long time unlike the planetside threads where the thread was active.

Lastly your proposal offends rights, and therefore it must carry sufficient importance , you cannot apply rules "couse why not ?" .


Last edited by Iv121 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:11 am

Tiel it appears you are losing.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:38 am

Let me add my two cents here.

I completely agree with Iv. It is pointless and a waste of both member time AND moderator time to enforce this rule.

Say person A posts about a game, maybe Half Life, and didn't search. The moderators then look through the entire off-topic area (or search it), identify that there was one about Black Mesa, which is VERY similar to Half Life (Its the same plot line) and proceeds to lock the new one and give the person points.

Us moderators would have to take extra duties in order to search for and identify EVERY SINGLE THREAD that comes up for duplicates. In every subforum. And given that topics are created frequently, it would end up taking most of our time on the forum.

In addition, there isn't very clear guidelines for what classifies as a duplicate thread. Sure, the exact same topic, 2 Halo 4's, yadda yadda. But for similar games, like Half Life and Black Mesa, which are the same story and essentially the same game but from different publishers, it could be classified as spam. Or maybe three threads each discussing Buildcraft, Industrialcraft, and Redpower respectively. If another thread comes in, discussing Tekkit, then would that be considered spam? Discussing a mod which contains all three other mods and more, would that be spam? It's a completelty different game, essentially, yet under your classification the similar topics would ALL be considered spam because they are very similar to each other.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:38 am

FEN-8001 wrote:
Let me add my two cents here.

I completely agree with Iv. It is pointless and a waste of both member time AND moderator time to enforce this rule.

Say person A posts about a game, maybe Half Life, and didn't search. The moderators then look through the entire off-topic area (or search it), identify that there was one about Black Mesa, which is VERY similar to Half Life (Its the same plot line) and proceeds to lock the new one and give the person points.

Us moderators would have to take extra duties in order to search for and identify EVERY SINGLE THREAD that comes up for duplicates. In every subforum. And given that topics are created frequently, it would end up taking most of our time on the forum.

In addition, there isn't very clear guidelines for what classifies as a duplicate thread. Sure, the exact same topic, 2 Halo 4's, yadda yadda. But for similar games, like Half Life and Black Mesa, which are the same story and essentially the same game but from different publishers, it could be classified as spam. Or maybe three threads each discussing Buildcraft, Industrialcraft, and Redpower respectively. If another thread comes in, discussing Tekkit, then would that be considered spam? Discussing a mod which contains all three other mods and more, would that be spam? It's a completelty different game, essentially, yet under your classification the similar topics would ALL be considered spam because they are very similar to each other.

Your example(s) really stink, for lack of a better word. Black Mesa and Half Life are very different games, even different engines, at that. They follow the same storyline, yes, and while the Black Mesa team tried to stay as true to HL as possible the levels cannot be called identical to the original. A thread for each could coexist with no issue, that is not what the proposal is for. As for Tekkit, it is a compilation of more than just the three mods you listed. The combination of all three plus the rest lends to a very different gameplay experience and thusly another thread is warranted.

Now, if there were four or so threads discussing How is Buildcraft?, Does anyone here play Buildcraft?, Buildcraft thread, that is what this proposal aims to eliminate. And no, it does not call for every moderator to index every thread that's ever existed as you're implying here. It's more geared towards the allowing of contributive posts in 'dead' threads (I have already distinguished the difference between that and a necro) where the alternative would have been a new thread, easing the burden on the mods by not filling up the forum with topics until it becomes all but unmanageable. The punishment for duplicate threads by reclassifying them as spam is just an incentive for people to bother checking before they make a new thread, again slowing down the growth of the forum and making it easier to moderate.

And no, Iv, no one's infringing on your rights here as you keep on repeating. You tell me what privileges you have to lose by the implementation of this notion, make my day. The vote shall remain where it is now, as there's no real reason to move it to this thread instead of the official proposal.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:21 pm

Tiel wrote:


And no, Iv, no one's infringing on your rights here as you keep on repeating. You tell me what privileges you have to lose by the implementation of this notion, make my day. The vote shall remain where it is now, as there's no real reason to move it to this thread instead of the official proposal.

Really ? If there is indeed no reason you should not be afraid of it .... I base my request on the assumption that the voters voted first and then read this thread which presents pros and cons, with no ability to change their vote. The vote should remain active for a week to give everyone an opportunity to vote and reconsider their votes depending on argument brought for and against. They cannot say they didn't see the arguments when the vote is included in this thread. For this very reason I request a new vote or a valid reason not to do it.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:03 pm

When you made this thread the poll only had around three votes, now it has 15. Clearly, people have seen the opinions already and have voted on their own initiative. So no, the poll has not been skewed and as such I see no need for another one. Unless a sufficient number of moderators and judges feel similar to you, it will remain that way.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:57 pm

Other Judges ?! You are kidding right ?! I take the initiative on me as the final point is to show where the community stands.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:05 pm

Yeah I don't like appointed Judges either, they should be elected, like in real life.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:30 pm

Yeah, one thing to remember here is that Iv121 and ACH0225 are moderators. That part of the proposal hasn't been implemented yet, but for this purpose they should be treated as if they already had their powers.

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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:41 pm

A proposal that is not yet law.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:42 pm

Iv121 wrote:
Other Judges ?! You are kidding right ?! I take the initiative on me as the final point is to show where the community stands.

Here's the thing. The community has voted and you don't like the results, so you want to make a new one. This has nothing to do with 'initiative' and everything to do with vanity.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:58 pm

Tiel wrote:
Iv121 wrote:
Other Judges ?! You are kidding right ?! I take the initiative on me as the final point is to show where the community stands.

Here's the thing. The community has voted and you don't like the results, so you want to make a new one. This has nothing to do with 'initiative' and everything to do with vanity.

As I said if this is indeed the case and I just whine about the results they will stay the same , isn't ?

Don’t forget to add your arguments, mark them in orange so I will see them.
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PostSubject: Re: A reply to "Proposal: Regarding Duplicate ..."   Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:29 pm

Tiel has rewritten his proposal (Glad you accepted my point of view Razz ) . It's been quite a mess with this suggestion because of the simple fact the suggestion was posted in a closed forum. Therefore I suggest that any future suggestions will be made in public forums. If anyone has objection he can write them down in this thread which will remain open until the short vote that has to be prolonged ends.
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