Apparently I'm a domestic terrorist.

Tau wrote:

MercurySteam wrote:

Some saner people hunt, some collect.

I guess the fact that I don't want to be physically assaulted makes me less sane than someone who simply ignores the possibility.


1. Criminals will always find guns. Always. They'll find a way. Although I acknowledge that banning or heavily restricting firearms would make it far more difficult for criminals to obtain them, doing so would also eliminate the most effective method for the general populace to defend themselves and their property.


2. Our society has degraded into a state where the people live in fear of the government. In a proper constitutional republic (namely the libertarian government the Founding Fathers envisioned), the opposite would be true. The government has gone from serving us, to depriving us of our rights. There are many ways to interpret the 2nd Amendment, but the one that makes the most sense (in my own opinion) is this:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Let's break this down, shall we?

"A well regulated Militia,..."

In modern times, this can be a bit hard to interpret. "Well regulated" more or less speaks for itself, although we should take care to not interpret it as 'heavily regulated'; the two are not interchangeable. "Militia" is also a bit tricky; most people falsely interpret it to mean 'military'. The dictionary definition of militia is as follows:

Militia: n. a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

Most etymologists agree that the word militia would have been interpreted in the 18th and 19th centuries as meaning a similar entity that does not necessarily act in conjunction with an organized ('regular') army.

"...being necessary to the security of a free State,..."

In the event that the government were to become tyrannical and corrupt, and such corruption were unable to be eliminated via less extreme measures, a revolution would likely be necessary to restore the rights of the people. The Founding Fathers, seeing the fact that a revolt against Britain would have been impossible without adequate weaponry, most likely wished to ensure that the people would have the capability to revolt against the American government in the event that they began losing their rights and freedoms as enumerated elsewhere in the Constitution and Bill Of Rights.

"...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,..."

This brings up an interesting issue. Although 'Arms' is generally considered to mean 'firearms', it could potentially be interpreted as meaning any potentially harmful weapon or weaponizable tool. (Yep, weaponizable is a word now.) We don't have to worry about this yet, but eventually it needs to be addressed.

"...shall not be infringed."

There you have it. The Founding Fathers gave us the right to keep and bear arms for more important reasons than recreation and self-defense.

I could go on like this going through the same process for every Amendment, but I won't. Mostly because it's 3 in the fucking morning.

tl;dr, but I hope you realize the National Guard pretty well fills the role of 'militia'. Anyone can join and they're under each state's jurisdiction unless federalized; governors can even act against the interests of the United States with their NG unit, such as when President whatshisface had to deploy some Army Airborne to get NG to stand down and let some black students into class because the gov. happened to be a racist bigot.

And ask how many people carry a concealed weapon on a regular basis to 'defend' themselves. Go on. I'll be waiting. Hell, just list a successful instance of someone using a firearm in self-defense without turning the situation into a clusterfuck and I'll concede the point. Yeah, sure, you could look at places like gunssavelives.com or wherever you get all your news, but our legal system was founded on the principle of due process, as in, not have a bunch of Batman wannabes running all over the place dispensing their own personal justice. If you're that concerned about safety there are plenty of nonlethal alternatives.

The problem with this country is that we glorify the gun. And of course, why not? We won our independence with it. We expanded across the continent with it. We became a global superpower with it. But look at other 1st world countries today that have been along centuries longer than the US of A, and see if they're making a big fuss about firearm restrictions. Places like England, Germany, etc...they've been fighting civil wars and revolutions since the age of bronze, and as a result you won't see nearly the amount of ridiculous protest against the restriction of a device that claims thousands of lives each year since they don't treat it like their lord and savior.

And as fr0st pointed out earlier, you're not going to DEPOSE TEH GUBBERMENT with a handful of rifles, anyway. Let me tell you truly, Tau - if I were (or when I am) a U.S soldier, I wouldn't think twice of following orders to restrain and arrest a crowd of gun-waving fanatics. Not because I love the government, but because as someone that's familiar with them I recognize they're dangerous and it's only a matter of time until a bullet goes whizzing into the skull of someone standing next to me. The times when a rifle was a necessary accessory to American life are long gone.

Hard to put it better than that. Tiel reminded me that apart from knowing how to use a gun you need to know how to fight using a gun, these two are different things and point and shoot like in some CoD game won't cut it ...

You people know nothing about firearms.

DaveMustaine wrote:

You people know nothing about firearms.

That is one hell of an argument you have there.

Depends who you call "you" .

DaveMustaine wrote:

You people know nothing about firearms.

And you know nothing about proper containment protocol, but we still let you work in the velociraptor habitat.
Where was I going with this?  Oh yeah, OSHA inspection coming up. If anyone asks, you are a licensed professional and I am not a pirate.

fr0stbyte124 wrote:

And you know nothing about proper containment protocol, but we still let you work in the velociraptor habitat.
Where was I going with this?  Oh yeah, OSHA inspection coming up.  If anyone asks, you are a licensed professional and I am not a pirate.

Dun worry, Fr0sty, we gotchyer back. OSHA's got nothin' on us. Yet.

Fleet Admiral Error wrote:

fr0stbyte124 wrote:

And you know nothing about proper containment protocol, but we still let you work in the velociraptor habitat.
Where was I going with this?  Oh yeah, OSHA inspection coming up.  If anyone asks, you are a licensed professional and I am not a pirate.

Dun worry, Fr0sty, we gotchyer back. OSHA's got nothin' on us. Yet.

The fuck is OSHA?

fr0stbyte124 wrote:

DaveMustaine wrote:

You people know nothing about firearms.

And you know nothing about proper containment protocol, but we still let you work in the velociraptor habitat.
Where was I going with this?  Oh yeah, OSHA inspection coming up.  If anyone asks, you are a licensed professional and I am not a pirate.

Also EIN inspection coming up on:
Mercury
Solar
(not really, but I write it here anyway) ACH

DaveMustaine wrote:

You people know nothing about firearms.

Marksmanship team, actually.

As in all things, the potential for misuse is dependent on the user. The government is attempting to restrict firearm sales in a bid to minimize that possibility as much as possible. Forgive me if I'm not seeing the problem here.

What I do see a problem with is internet censorship. If you're going to protest something, at least pick an issue with meaningful relevance.

Tiel+ wrote:

DaveMustaine wrote:

You people know nothing about firearms.

Marksmanship team, actually.

As in all things, the potential for misuse is dependent on the user. The government is attempting to restrict firearm sales in a bid to minimize that possibility as much as possible. Forgive me if I'm not seeing the problem here.

What I do see a problem with is internet censorship. If you're going to protest something, at least pick an issue with meaningful relevance.

Something's wrong...
Tiel says stuff I agree to.
That wouldn't have been possibly ~2 months ago...
It might have to do with CMA giving a quite strong contrast to the rest of the community.

Tiel+ wrote:

What I do see a problem with is internet censorship.

I agree wholeheartedly. Not just censorship of the Internet, but also the 'discouragement' of the coverage of certain subjects in the mainstream media.

Tiel+ wrote:

If you're going to protest something, at least pick an issue with meaningful relevance.

I can't argue with that, yet at the same time I don't quite agree. Guns are a big part of my life. Two of my favorite hobbies are hunting and target shooting, and I'm quite good at both. It may not mean that much to you, but to me it means quite a bit.

Prototype wrote:

What the fuck is OSHA?

It's the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. It handles workplace safety regulations and workman's compensation.

Tau wrote:

Tiel+ wrote:

If you're going to protest something, at least pick an issue with meaningful relevance.

I can't argue with that, yet at the same time I don't quite agree. Guns are a big part of my life. Two of my favorite hobbies are hunting and target shooting, and I'm quite good at both. It may not mean that much to you, but to me it means quite a bit.

What means a lot to me, Tau, is preventing someone from walking into a school and gunning little children down. I enjoy shooting as well, but I'm not sure where we go from 'this might hamper my hobby and I am upset' to 'fuck the government taking away our rights'.

Civilians can do target shooting in Britain, but to own the gun you need a licence.

I doubt guns will be outright banned, more like you need a licence (and a test to prove you're not a psychopathic school shooter) to own a gun. Which is a fairly sensible idea.

Tiel+ wrote:

What means a lot to me, Tau, is preventing someone from walking into a school and gunning little children down. I enjoy shooting as well, but I'm not sure where we go from 'this might hamper my hobby and I am upset' to 'fuck the government taking away our rights'.

You seem to be under the impression that I support the elimination of most or all restrictions on firearm usage and ownership. This is not the case.

Although in a perfect libertarian society it would not be necessary to have any form of restrictions on firearms, America is not a perfect libertarian society. (In fact, since about 2010, it's been drifting toward statism at an alarming pace.) The policies being pushed by Obama, however, are patently absurd.

What I say is this: Put reasonable checks in place to prevent the mentally ill from obtaining firearms. Require a short psychological evaluation and a firearm safety course in order to purchase and own a non-semiauto shotgun or rifle. Require a moderately more rigorous evaluation to obtain a license for semiauto rifles and rifles with a bore diameter higher than .308 caliber, and handguns. Require that these licenses be renewed (by retaking the psychological examination) every 2 years.

The phrase 'well-regulated' is in the 2nd Amendment for a reason. Eliminating most of the laws regarding firearms would be absolutely horrific; banning them would be equally disastrous. I, too, do not wish to see innocent children get shot.

[/compromise]

I was referring to Iv's use of the term"assault rifle" and Tiel saying that guns are "guilty" of something. Let me also remind everyone that columbine happened in the middle of an AR ban.

People are finally starting to realize what's happening to the government and stuff. The NSA is being sued for spying.  

Guns are very important to Americans. It's a right guaranteed to us in the constitution to own a weapon and to forcefully abolish the government if it gets to... well... where it is now.

I'd like to add something. It has nothing to do with the NSA and gun control but it's very interesting and suspicious. Spoiler below:

Clicky clicky:

Commander Shane Kobialka wrote:

People are finally starting to realize what's happening to the government and stuff. The NSA is being sued for spying.  

Guns are very important to Americans. It's a right guaranteed to us in the constitution to own a weapon and to forcefully abolish the government if it gets to... well... where it is now.

I'd like to add something. It has nothing to do with the NSA and gun control but it's very interesting and suspicious. Spoiler below:

Clicky clicky:

Everyone listen to him. He's fucking golden.

EDIT: The weight of that statement in the spoiler just hit me. I'm in North Carolina, near Asheville. I'm only 250 miles away from Charleston. If the government DOES bomb the base, my life will become a clusterfuck.

Link to some related articles:
http://www.infowars.com/sen-graham-warns-of-nuke-strike-after-missing-nuke-report/
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/09/nuclear-warheads-reportedly-moved-from-texas-to-south-carolina/
http://www.storyleak.com/senator-warns-nuke-attack-s-carolina/

In tangentially related news, my Bitcoin miner arrived today.

That seems reasonable.

fr0stbyte124 wrote:

That seems reasonable.

Not reasonable until the Illuminati is blamed. Or aliens. Or ancient calendars.

E: Or ancient alien calendars. Or the Alien Illuminati.

Fucking infowars? This is golden. Make sure to send some of that fallout down here to Atlanta, I'll be in the mountains or dead by then.

MercurySteam wrote:

fr0stbyte124 wrote:

That seems reasonable.

Not reasonable until the Illuminati is blamed. Or aliens. Or ancient calendars.

E: Or ancient alien calendars. Or the Alien Illuminati.

Ancient illuminati alien calendars prophesying the new world order run by their future members.

The entire forum was v& after ans months. I'd say something other than random comments if I could btw, but I'm on a kindle. And everyone knowsit's the reptiloid jewish banking cabal that's responsible. Fr0st himself is a member.

You all take it too srsly, do you really think something would happen to the NSA ? Do you really think you are not being spied on for the past dozens of years ? By Americans, Russians, French, you name it. If you plan to surf on the internet be ready and know you are being watched, that is it, it is no secret as I said and the only reason it "blew up" recently is because press ran out of things to write about .

Clicky clicky:

Well that borders with dumb, how is he supposed to know about nuke shipment schedules anyway ?

Tau wrote:

-snip-

I still fail to see why getting rid of weapons in the civilian sector will be "horrific" , also don't forget that children are getting shot not only because of "psychopaths" who don't really feel that psychopathic (Yes killing your teacher for example is a crime, but not psychosis), how often do you hear about gun misfires ?

I also read an article of someone who talked about "Guns save lives" , he told me that in most cases the shooting happened in places where guns were not allowed in, such as the Aurora movie theater, and so even if you carried a gun permit you were not allowed to enter with your gun. The  author claimed that this made those who were sitting in the theater sitting ducks that the Aurora gunman could kill without resistance. Lets assume there was an armed person in the theater that night (which is not that probabl BTW), the shootout that could evolve from having two people with arms in a theater full of people will take more lives than that gunman took on his own, with double the bullets flying around and both persons having no idea as to how to fight with a gun whatsoever they will end up shooting more civilians than before. Even in the military misfires happen often, and after all that training soldiers got one of the common injury reasons during battle is friendly fire ...

Iv, I don't even... most people I know caan aim agun properly. And look up kennesaw GA's crime rate, ita technically illegal not to own a gun there.