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 Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.

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Fighters should be...
6degree fully realistic. (Play orbiter.)
30%
 30% [ 7 ]
Atmospheric jet. (Play plane mod)
17%
 17% [ 4 ]
6degrees, not quite realistic. (This would be what Sins has for fighters, and what Black Prophecy has.)
39%
 39% [ 9 ]
Something else? Comment.
13%
 13% [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 23
 

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Keon
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:16 am

Cheatmaster wrote:
Up would equal the up at the Mother Ship

Thus the enemies gate is down. Very Happy

Anyway, I'm against simulating sickness. If I want to get you sick, the spinning can deorient you and then the real you is sick.

I agree, we should slow down, as though the fighter is moving through syrup.

A HUD could be interesting, and I would like to have some way for these things to be shown:

Missile incoming.
Locked on.
Your health and shields, missiles, etc.

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You know, I was thinking we should have a 3D crafting grid for complex recipes, but Kielaran is right: why have three dimensions when you can have six? Truly I don't know how we ever got by with a measly two.


Mackeroth? wrote:
Now, if Fr0stbyte wrote that, someone would make a sig, guaranteed. So what are you going to do now?
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:23 am

Keon wrote:
Cheatmaster wrote:
Up would equal the up at the Mother Ship

Thus the enemies gate is down. Very Happy

Anyway, I'm against simulating sickness. If I want to get you sick, the spinning can deorient you and then the real you is sick.

I agree, we should slow down, as though the fighter is moving through syrup.

A HUD could be interesting, and I would like to have some way for these things to be shown:

Missile incoming.
Locked on.
Your health and shields, missiles, etc.
Excellent.
Finally someone who thinks the same way as me.
The only thing that stops us from being friends now is that my new boss is a little bit racist...
I order for you to meet up with me you would have to go through a wide variety of security "tests" which include assimilation...
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:12 pm

Need a HUD ? I'll draw you a prototype with the correct location of stuff.

List of things I'll add:

Cursor,
Radar,
target brackets - shows the selected target and a forward cursor - the place where you have to shoot in order to hit.
Lock-on warning - blinks when someone is acquiring a missile lock on your ship
missile warning - indicates the incoming missile.
Ship integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status.
target integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status
energy management - allows you to redirect energy to your weapons, shields and engine.
Munitions status - shows your missiles/torpedoes/other ballistic munitions
speed bar - shows your current speed.
energy bar - shows your current energy status.

Anything else you need ?
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:38 pm

Iv121 wrote:
Need a HUD ? I'll draw you a prototype with the correct location of stuff.

List of things I'll add:

Cursor,
Radar,
target brackets - shows the selected target and a forward cursor - the place where you have to shoot in order to hit.
Lock-on warning - blinks when someone is acquiring a missile lock on your ship
missile warning - indicates the incoming missile.
Ship integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status.
target integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status
energy management - allows you to redirect energy to your weapons, shields and engine.
Munitions status - shows your missiles/torpedoes/other ballistic munitions
speed bar - shows your current speed.
energy bar - shows your current energy status.

Anything else you need ?

shield status - shows how much power your shields have left
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:45 pm

Will be shown in ship integrity.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:58 pm

Iv121 wrote:
Will be shown in ship integrity.
okay.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:15 pm

Iv121 wrote:
Need a HUD ? I'll draw you a prototype with the correct location of stuff.

List of things I'll add:

Cursor,
Radar,
target brackets - shows the selected target and a forward cursor - the place where you have to shoot in order to hit.
Lock-on warning - blinks when someone is acquiring a missile lock on your ship
missile warning - indicates the incoming missile.
Ship integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status.
target integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status
energy management - allows you to redirect energy to your weapons, shields and engine.
Munitions status - shows your missiles/torpedoes/other ballistic munitions
speed bar - shows your current speed.
energy bar - shows your current energy status.

Anything else you need ?
Battlefront lets you select an enemy, and then that enemy will have red brackets around him when he's onscreen. When he's not visible, there are arrows at the edge of the screen showing what direction he's in. They make dogfighting much easier.

About up/down in space: In SWBF2, the space combat involves starfighters and capital ships. The caps do not move. They're facing the same way up, so up/down becomes relative to the hangars you launched out of/are landing in. That won't work in FC, though, because (hopefully) larger ships will be able to rotate.

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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:32 pm

Iv121 wrote:
Need a HUD ? I'll draw you a prototype with the correct location of stuff.

List of things I'll add:

Cursor,
Radar,
target brackets - shows the selected target and a forward cursor - the place where you have to shoot in order to hit.
Lock-on warning - blinks when someone is acquiring a missile lock on your ship
missile warning - indicates the incoming missile.
Ship integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status.
target integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status
energy management - allows you to redirect energy to your weapons, shields and engine.
Munitions status - shows your missiles/torpedoes/other ballistic munitions
speed bar - shows your current speed.
energy bar - shows your current energy status.

Anything else you need ?

target brackets won't be part of the actual HUD, because they would never move. Instead, i suggest sonsulting with pheenixm on his highlights of mobs when using the different weaponry, such as how all mobes are surrounded by a red box when using the map GUI for the Ballistic Missile Launcher, or the Predator Missile.

I would also think consulting with pheenixm about player-controlled drones that would function similar to his Valkyrie missile.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:35 pm

scout37 wrote:
Iv121 wrote:
Need a HUD ? I'll draw you a prototype with the correct location of stuff.

List of things I'll add:

Cursor,
Radar,
target brackets - shows the selected target and a forward cursor - the place where you have to shoot in order to hit.
Lock-on warning - blinks when someone is acquiring a missile lock on your ship
missile warning - indicates the incoming missile.
Ship integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status.
target integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status
energy management - allows you to redirect energy to your weapons, shields and engine.
Munitions status - shows your missiles/torpedoes/other ballistic munitions
speed bar - shows your current speed.
energy bar - shows your current energy status.

Anything else you need ?

target brackets won't be part of the actual HUD, because they would never move. Instead, i suggest sonsulting with pheenixm on his highlights of mobs when using the different weaponry, such as how all mobes are surrounded by a red box when using the map GUI for the Ballistic Missile Launcher, or the Predator Missile.

I would also think consulting with pheenixm about player-controlled drones that would function similar to his Valkyrie missile.

You are actually wrong about HUDs.
HUDs are everything displayed on that glass panel between you and the cockpit window.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:48 pm

Here you go:

Spoiler:
 

Bottom right ship - the player's ship. This panel displays the player's ship integrity. The shield strength is indicated by the opacity of the line, if its invisible your shields are down. The ship's subsystems are shown in their respective positions in the ship: Cockpit, weapon mounts, sensors pod, engines, generator, missile pods. Damaged subsystems will be shown in yellow, destroyed in red. The HP bar shows the overall hull integrity.

Bottom right - target's ship (can be friend and foe) . Works the same as the player's integrity panel. Will only display information the player can obtain with his sensor pod. Damaged subsystems are not visible. Destroyed subsystems are displayed yellow.

Bottom middle circle - radar. It shows the location of ships and objects around on the Y-Z plane. In order to obtain info about the x location the player can move the ship to the sides a bit so he can compare the location. Targets in the middle of the radar are either directly in front or behind the player's ship.

Right top corner - munitions and energy management. Displays the energy bars that the player can effect. There is a preset amount of energy the generator can create. You can assign this energy to one of the 3 subsystems: Weapons, shields or engines. The more energy the shield gets the faster it regenerates. The more energy the engine gets the faster the ship goes and the longer the afterburner will work. The more energy the weapons have the more shots the faster the weapon's energy will regenerate.
The missiles are grouped depending on the possible equip configuration - each group will consist of one missile type. You cannot mix diff types in one group.

Middle: The cursor and the HUD brackets. The cursor shows you where your shots will head to. the HUD brackets serve for different purposes. on the right bracket there is the weapon energy bar. Each shot your energetic weapons make requires energy from this reserve. If this bar is depleted the weapon cannot shot. It's regeneration rate is decided by the amount of energy routed to the weapons subsystem (see the panel to the right). on the left bracket there is the thrusters energy bar. The usage of the thrusters depletes energy. It's regen rate is decided by the by the amount of energy routed to the engine subsystem (see the panel to the right). Above that bar there are two indicators - the first is targeting indicator - blinks when the enemy has you targeted with his sensors. The second indicator is the missile lock-on indicator. It blinks slow when the enemy is locking on you and glows (or blinks fast, whatever you want) when the missile is launched. When this happens a yellow indicator appears on the bracket depending on the missile's approach direction. The shorter the line the closer the missile.

The red stuff in the right is the targeted ship. As it's out of range (was too lazy to paint a ship) there is no lead indicator that tells you where to shot.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:49 pm

Ivan2006 wrote:
scout37 wrote:
Iv121 wrote:
Need a HUD ? I'll draw you a prototype with the correct location of stuff.

List of things I'll add:

Cursor,
Radar,
target brackets - shows the selected target and a forward cursor - the place where you have to shoot in order to hit.
Lock-on warning - blinks when someone is acquiring a missile lock on your ship
missile warning - indicates the incoming missile.
Ship integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status.
target integrity - shows the ship and it's subsystems' status
energy management - allows you to redirect energy to your weapons, shields and engine.
Munitions status - shows your missiles/torpedoes/other ballistic munitions
speed bar - shows your current speed.
energy bar - shows your current energy status.

Anything else you need ?

target brackets won't be part of the actual HUD, because they would never move. Instead, i suggest sonsulting with pheenixm on his highlights of mobs when using the different weaponry, such as how all mobes are surrounded by a red box when using the map GUI for the Ballistic Missile Launcher, or the Predator Missile.

I would also think consulting with pheenixm about player-controlled drones that would function similar to his Valkyrie missile.

You are actually wrong about HUDs.
HUDs are everything displayed on that glass panel between you and the cockpit window.

NO, im not. I understand what HUD is ingeneral, but we need to remember that THIS IS MINECRAFT. This means it is far mroe likely just to make a texture for a ship HUD similar to how there is a texture for the player's hud. all it is is a texture template for all the things you see in the game, and for every lost heart or what not there is a different template. the HUD of minecrafdt is not coded in ow it looks, so what you see would be textured.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:01 pm

Here is my evidence:

The HUD icon's and bars for health, XP, and food etc.


and the HUD player's quick-use inventory template.



Thats all it is, those texture mappings which strands of code in the .jar are programmed to select a specific area based on where the image is that needs be used at the apropriate time. So just making a flat-out texture with all the info on it would not work out.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:03 pm

SO, unless that is how you made it Iv, i'm sorry. I dont think it would work unless it was all sperate textures that you coded to blend together.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:21 pm

Oh they are. There is no problem in cuttin it all into small pieces. Too complicated to be added ? remove it. Add it elsewhere . It is fully modular.

And BTW most HUDs in games work like that. You cannot create textures from nowhere they have to be stored like that somewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:03 pm

Besides with correct coding you can make stuff move on the HUD in real time. Take the minimap mod for example .The radar can work the same, just it will also check for updates in other ship's locations.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:54 am

Iv121 wrote:
Besides with correct coding you can make stuff move on the HUD in real time. Take the minimap mod for example .The radar can work the same, just it will also check for updates in other ship's locations.
For the radar: I think it should show the stuff in front of the fighter, like modern Plane- radars do (I mean radars like the ones of a F-22, not an E-3.) and the white point in the middle would be the direction you´re flying at.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:57 am

scout37 wrote:
Here is my evidence:

The HUD icon's and bars for health, XP, and food etc.


and the HUD player's quick-use inventory template.



Thats all it is, those texture mappings which strands of code in the .jar are programmed to select a specific area based on where the image is that needs be used at the apropriate time. So just making a flat-out texture with all the info on it would not work out.
Cool evidence. Now please show me the evidence that HUD- icons can´t move on the HUD and can´t be coded to do so.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:36 am

We need Fr0stbyte's help to come up with a working HUD. I don't care what anyone has to say, we should take the Plane Mod and create a HUD for one of their planes. We don't need the format to be quite as complex as IV suggested, but something similar would make my day, and something that cool (while still being fairly simple) will appease the masses.

Fr0stbyte, using the Pane Mod, how long would it take you to create a working HUD? If you could have it done withing a few weeks of what little time you get on Futurecraft, we would all be very happy.


How I would like the HUDs (and various other aspects of the fighter) to go:

A representation of your fighter, like IV had. This would have the health, shield and energy bar next to it. Shield strength would be around 100 hp (hp, not hearts, 1hp=0.5 hearts), and would recharge at a rate of 1hp per second. Energy would be in the vicinity of 1000EUs and would be reduced by shield recharge, movement, and firing of weapons. Health is 50 hp, and is reduced by weapons' fire and collisions (in the Plane Mod, parts of the plane disappear once shot, we could have something similar, with perhaps some particle effects and alarms).

The radar, as IV specified.

All enemies on screen have a big red marker on them.

Targeting like IV specified.

No fancy HUD brackets, just stationary graphics.



Anything I miss.




Fr0stbyte, I have faith in you.

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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:23 am

If you need additional stuff just ask. As for the radar remember that in real life the Z axis on earth is quite limited compared to the x-y plane. Thats why in modern jets the radar concentrates on the x-y plane. I desided to concentrate on the y-z plane because in space battle it's important to see what's in front of you and how to point your ship there. You can still have the x axis displayed using faded and bright dots. The faded ones are further away, means further on the x axis. It works that way trust me.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:05 am

Wait, Ivan is one of the coders? Or is Iv? I'm really confused (also, the minimaps are not textured except for the outer design t so we can get creative of how the minimap/radar will look on the edges)

I'm just trying to prove a point that i dont think it to be possible to make a visible HUD at the moment without the coding. DOn't skim read, because this still means that we CAN make the components.
Add whats wrong with asking pheenixm? he has already created the targeting boxes over mobs, and he has ALWAYS been open to helping other modders with their projects. The only affect i could imagine it having is speeding up the time.

Also, he's had the recoded explosion algorithems or whatever they are so huge explosions make barely a second of lag. I definitely think fr0stbyte should look into it, if he hasnt already improved it.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:19 am

Mackeroth? wrote:
We need Fr0stbyte's help to come up with a working HUD. I don't care what anyone has to say, we should take the Plane Mod and create a HUD for one of their planes. We don't need the format to be quite as complex as IV suggested, but something similar would make my day, and something that cool (while still being fairly simple) will appease the masses.

Fr0stbyte, using the Pane Mod, how long would it take you to create a working HUD? If you could have it done withing a few weeks of what little time you get on Futurecraft, we would all be very happy.


How I would like the HUDs (and various other aspects of the fighter) to go:

A representation of your fighter, like IV had. This would have the health, shield and energy bar next to it. Shield strength would be around 100 hp (hp, not hearts, 1hp=0.5 hearts), and would recharge at a rate of 1hp per second. Energy would be in the vicinity of 1000EUs and would be reduced by shield recharge, movement, and firing of weapons. Health is 50 hp, and is reduced by weapons' fire and collisions (in the Plane Mod, parts of the plane disappear once shot, we could have something similar, with perhaps some particle effects and alarms).

The radar, as IV specified.

All enemies on screen have a big red marker on them.

Targeting like IV specified.

No fancy HUD brackets, just stationary graphics.



Anything I miss.




Fr0stbyte, I have faith in you.

I'm requesting permission to try. I think I can do this, I understand the algorythm I will use. I don't know much, but I don't think frost should stop with his coding. Plus, shipyards are useless when we don't have ships.

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You know, I was thinking we should have a 3D crafting grid for complex recipes, but Kielaran is right: why have three dimensions when you can have six? Truly I don't know how we ever got by with a measly two.


Mackeroth? wrote:
Now, if Fr0stbyte wrote that, someone would make a sig, guaranteed. So what are you going to do now?
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:17 pm

Keon wrote:
Mackeroth? wrote:
We need Fr0stbyte's help to come up with a working HUD. I don't care what anyone has to say, we should take the Plane Mod and create a HUD for one of their planes. We don't need the format to be quite as complex as IV suggested, but something similar would make my day, and something that cool (while still being fairly simple) will appease the masses.

Fr0stbyte, using the Pane Mod, how long would it take you to create a working HUD? If you could have it done withing a few weeks of what little time you get on Futurecraft, we would all be very happy.


How I would like the HUDs (and various other aspects of the fighter) to go:

A representation of your fighter, like IV had. This would have the health, shield and energy bar next to it. Shield strength would be around 100 hp (hp, not hearts, 1hp=0.5 hearts), and would recharge at a rate of 1hp per second. Energy would be in the vicinity of 1000EUs and would be reduced by shield recharge, movement, and firing of weapons. Health is 50 hp, and is reduced by weapons' fire and collisions (in the Plane Mod, parts of the plane disappear once shot, we could have something similar, with perhaps some particle effects and alarms).

The radar, as IV specified.

All enemies on screen have a big red marker on them.

Targeting like IV specified.

No fancy HUD brackets, just stationary graphics.



Anything I miss.




Fr0stbyte, I have faith in you.

I'm requesting permission to try. I think I can do this, I understand the algorythm I will use. I don't know much, but I don't think frost should stop with his coding. Plus, shipyards are useless when we don't have ships.

Sure, go ahead.

Good luck.

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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:21 am

I think Fighters should fly like in black prophecy because I like the 6 degrees of freedom and because this is a Mod for minecraft and Not the reality
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:34 am

Not a question of reality. Those who ever played freespace know why the straight system is so good. It means that the one who flies better is the one who wins not the one who points better, as here you will find the sides quite even ... Those who played Black Prophecy will never know the thrill of a real dogfight Sad , that's why I quit it .

If you played black prophecy tell me - how do you usually fight - face to face or chasing ? There is not a lot of chasing in black prophesy even though it is the basis for dogfight - to outmanoeuvre your foe so he won't be on your tail. Face to face clashes are the worst possible cases where the one with the bigger guns and armor wins, you can't escape in such situation , surely not when the enemy can simply point his mouse at you. In Freespace you can at least make a tight manoeuvre to the side and outru the foe with your speed.
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:07 am

Iv121 wrote:
Not a question of reality. Those who ever played freespace know why the straight system is so good. It means that the one who flies better is the one who wins not the one who points better, as here you will find the sides quite even ... Those who played Black Prophecy will never know the thrill of a real dogfight Sad , that's why I quit it .

If you played black prophecy tell me - how do you usually fight - face to face or chasing ? There is not a lot of chasing in black prophesy even though it is the basis for dogfight - to outmanoeuvre your foe so he won't be on your tail. Face to face clashes are the worst possible cases where the one with the bigger guns and armor wins, you can't escape in such situation , surely not when the enemy can simply point his mouse at you. In Freespace you can at least make a tight manoeuvre to the side and outru the foe with your speed.

I always get behind them. But I agree, the balance could use some work.

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fr0stbyte124 wrote:
You know, I was thinking we should have a 3D crafting grid for complex recipes, but Kielaran is right: why have three dimensions when you can have six? Truly I don't know how we ever got by with a measly two.


Mackeroth? wrote:
Now, if Fr0stbyte wrote that, someone would make a sig, guaranteed. So what are you going to do now?
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PostSubject: Re: Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.   

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Fighters. Biggest problem since everything else.
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