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 War On Terror- yes or no?

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scout37
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PostSubject: War On Terror- yes or no?   Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:18 pm

I saw a post in the politics section of the off-topic area on the MC forums, and there was a post about AL-Quidas 2nd in command ptentially being killed by a drone. I started to praise the victory, but then got into an argument between two idiots who had no clue what they were saying while i was explaining wy the war on terror in the middle east is justified. ONe said that we "are killing millions of innocent people to avenge a few thousand". I felt like strangling him if i could. if someone believes millions of civilians have been killed by the United States since 2001, they are very, very wrong.

What are other peoples opinions on this? (this is hopefully not political, since its more global conflict between kick ass US&Co. against the other people)
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Oh no. No no no no no. This is the last thing we need.

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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:38 pm

Not political? Conflict is politics.

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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:33 pm

Everything is a conflict, whether you like it or not.

For instance, going up the stairs is a conflict between you and gravity.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:36 am

OR cooperation between you and Fn ... Look at the positive sides Razz .

I saw you saying "killing millions of innocents" . Now WTH did you find millions of dead ppl since WW2 ? . Yea there are deaths, in thousands, but not in millions, yet. Every war requires casualties and no matter what you do there will be. If a terrorist uses civilians as cover you may shoot the civilians by mistake, or the terrorist will go make a bomb and kill your civilians.
Some facts about terror: The eastern Muslim cultures are aggressive. If you do not respond to their attack they consider it as weakness. By now the best way to prevent terror in the region was striking back. Peace talks in this region are another word for doing nothing. We are currently in a middle of negotiations about the negotiation's conditions ... The more power a western country has the more civilians it allows itself to kill. Israel cannot effort one dead child as then all the media in the world starts blaming us in murdering. The USA on the other side can effort much more as who will go against the mighty USA. It gives the USA more freedom to fight terror but unfortunately it doesn't use it correctly. Arab countries with dictatorships discourage terror in their countries (Unless that dictator is already an Islamite, like in Iran) . IF this dictator is removed the probability of an Islamise organization to take control is very high. Egypt is currently in the middle of this problem with the candidate of the Muslim brothers trying to win the elections and rebuild the country as Islamite. For this very reason and because of the Arab aggressive culture, the Arab world is not yet ready for democracy. The western world should not interfere with those things. It's much better that things remain in their place. I can assure you dictatorship will be there, the difference will be in a dictator. There is always a chance for something else though - Anarchy. Including the fact that the candidate of the military ppl in Egypt is loosing there is a chance for a civil war in Egypt. Until the collapse of the world trade center, many countries discouraged any contact with Israel which was considered, for her fighting against terrorists which involve civilian casualties , a rough state. The US didn't rly care about what the terrorists were doing, their high moral ideals made them blind until it was too late. After that fall of the trade center, other terrorist strikes were committed in different countries in the world. Even after those incidents European countries such as Britain have cold relations with Israel. Its known that the terrorists possess biological, chemical and "dirty' weapons ( Dirty weapons consist of a warhead that detonates in air spreading radioactive waste. It's not a nuclear bomb and doesn't involve big explosions). Terrorist are well trained nowdays and can destroy or evade most things modern armies can throw at them. Wars against terrorism are forbidden by Geneva’s convention. Some states such as the US try to fix it, with no results to this day.



Last edited by Iv121 on Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:37 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:55 am

Iv121 wrote:


Some states such as the US try to fix it, with no results to this day.


Very true and if there is one thing: you have to learn from history. Al Qaeda used guerrilla warfare to assault the US troops with turned out to be very effective, this happen about 300 hundred years ago with the Revolutionary war in the US.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:00 am

Please learn to spell Neutral

Mod Edit: Please don't turn this into a discussion about spelling again. And post something pertaining to the topic. First Warning.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:59 pm

I didnt say millions of people. one of the nut jobs against me said it. I wouldnt be surprised if less than a hundred non combatants have been killed by the U.S. since 2003. By al quida, on the otherhand, has killed hundreds if not thousands from suicide bombings, with no military casualties. only civilians.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:06 pm

First_Sith_Sitting wrote:
Please learn to spell Neutral

Mod Edit: Please don't turn this into a discussion about spelling again. And post something pertaining to the topic. First Warning.

You can't possibly expect your point to be received unless you can use proper grammar and not dance your fingers all over the keyboard like a 10 year old. Proofreading goes a long way. And I'm also curious when/where I started a discussion about spelling.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:07 pm

Who's using green. It's my color, please stop.

Fine, I'll use the Kedit.

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You know, I was thinking we should have a 3D crafting grid for complex recipes, but Kielaran is right: why have three dimensions when you can have six? Truly I don't know how we ever got by with a measly two.


Mackeroth? wrote:
Now, if Fr0stbyte wrote that, someone would make a sig, guaranteed. So what are you going to do now?


Last edited by Keon on Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:11 pm

The thing that gets people here is the scale. We hear about an attack in which, say, a dozen people were killed, and we're horrified. As we should be. Several million people have been killed in the war. But remember that 73 million were killed in WWII.

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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:04 pm

My opinion on the matter:

This is why you don't let politics or religion decide anything. Humans make mistakes. Let all major decisions be governed by an AI.

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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:38 pm

I'm (happily) surprised no one has played the '9-11 was an inside job' card.

However, I just want everyone to keep in mind why the 9/11 attacks happened in the first place - the USA has done an excellent job screwing up their foreign policy in the middle east since the Cold War. The government's interventionist policies painted a target on America.

I supported the initial invasion of Afghanistan as a response to the targeting of civilians, but everything that has happened since then is just overboard. At this point, it's just the USA waving it's guns in the air like an idiot.

If you paid attention to the news a few months back, you might remember the video of the American gunship pilots massacring a village like they were playing Call of Duty. It's the incidents like that which define the war from a non-american viewpoint, along with the bigotry and outright racism (still very present) that spread like wildfire in the early 00's.

The moral of the story is, interventionism is a bad thing.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:58 pm

Avenger_7 wrote:
I'm (happily) surprised no one has played the '9-11 was an inside job' card.

However, I just want everyone to keep in mind why the 9/11 attacks happened in the first place - the USA has done an excellent job screwing up their foreign policy in the middle east since the Cold War. The government's interventionist policies painted a target on America.

I supported the initial invasion of Afghanistan as a response to the targeting of civilians, but everything that has happened since then is just overboard. At this point, it's just the USA waving it's guns in the air like an idiot.

If you paid attention to the news a few months back, you might remember the video of the American gunship pilots massacring a village like they were playing Call of Duty. It's the incidents like that which define the war from a non-american viewpoint, along with the bigotry and outright racism (still very present) that spread like wildfire in the early 00's.

The moral of the story is, interventionism is a bad thing.

You hear about that, yet somehow the news of suicide bombers killing 30 including a8 women and children seems to escape us. And then there are the kidnappings, and the rapes, and a executions...

Either way, what im saying is that many civilians have been hypnotized by propoganda into thinking that every american wants to control afghanistan. The Somali Warlords played the same card back in '93 by convincing most of Mogadishu that america wants to steal the Qu'ran and colonize Somalia. As a result, there were mothers carrying a baby in her hands while letting an armed gunman stand behind her.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:49 am

You came BTW to the log awaited conclusion - you cannot defeat terrorism unless the locals stop supporting the terrorists. In other words until the idiots start thinking the only thing you can do is suppress terrorism. Including the fact that they are still pretty much in the middle ages in their ways of thinking it will take some good years. It will be a mistake , as I said , to try to bring our ideals to those holes: See what those revolutions did in Egypt - if either one of the candidates win there will be a civil war (or at least a civil unrest). If the candidate from the military looses I think the military ppl won't be happy... If that candidate wins the civilians who see him part of the old regime won't be happy and they will be back on the streets. Egypt shows anything besides sign of readiness for democracy. Its actually funny to see their vision of democracy - When the military said it takes control over the country in order to keep it running and organize election most of the ppl were ok with it. A week later turns out it's not enough and the protesters are back at Tahrir shouting death to whoever is in charge. This time they wanted the elections to happen tomorrow ... Luckily this time they didn't rob any shops because all the shops on tahrir were already robbed in previous protests ...
They do not know what they want. Their life is s**t and they want to make it batter. They sincerely believe that if they change whoever rules life will be better. In fact they ruined their economy (Which was tourist based) for years to come. Their impulsive nature makes them frustrated and aggressive. They usually start diff violence like all those robberies in Cyro prev year. When the elections finally came they were quite happy. Seems like the fear their candidate won't win drove the electors into beating the crap out of everything they see. The elections were surprisingly quite with only like 300 registered cases of fights, a few robberies , an election center burnt and one man killed. Quite quiet for such a country as Egypt. BTW the candidates bought their voices with food (no there is no hunger in Egypt) , Organized busses ... The candidates of the Muslim brothers put some cars with speakers that said if you won't vote for the Muslim brothers you will burn in hell.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:00 pm

You know what? We as the US bring this on ourselves. They don't WANT us there, and the only thing we're doing by staying there and sticking our tongue out is indirectly taking innocent lives by provoking terrorists and wasting our own lives trying to do something about it. This reminds me of an episode of Star Trek: Enterprise where Captain Archer is asked to save a race from extinction, but his doctor tells him that their job out there isn't to play god. I mean, sure. Anthrax, Nukes...etc...these warrant looking into, but not by the already worldwide ostracized US of A. A UN investigation team, perhaps. But no. We don't live there. We have no business poking our nose there.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:01 pm

1. For the US it's already too late. If you stop now you'll get only more terror.
2. Even Russia - the great terrorist supporter is hit by terrorists from time to time. The chances any country is protected from it are quite low.
3. It was the USA's political line before the terrorist attacks on the USA (Actually the world trade center was not the first, the more significant one though)
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:38 am

The whole point of terrorism is to make a political statement. Russia practices a very oppressive regime, and the USA - well, I said it earlier.

The point is, you will get targeted if you make yourself a target. That's why Canadian prisoners in Afghanistan were treated markedly better than their US counterparts; we try to be friendly with everyone. It's a policy that goes back to WW II.

I'm not saying we're perfect, but we have had very few attacks as compared to the States.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:48 am

It's just a question of priority. Eventually you will be such, too .
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:52 pm

Avenger_7 wrote:
The whole point of terrorism is to make a political statement. Russia practices a very oppressive regime, and the USA - well, I said it earlier.

The point is, you will get targeted if you make yourself a target. That's why Canadian prisoners in Afghanistan were treated markedly better than their US counterparts; we try to be friendly with everyone. It's a policy that goes back to WW II.

I'm not saying we're perfect, but we have had very few attacks as compared to the States.

Yes, but i dont think its because of your attempts at friendlyness.

Lets try and take a look at the nations more involved with international politics, foreign aid, revolutionary advancements in mankind's technology (space programs, anyone) and world standpoint.

The United States:

beginning- succesfully won a revolution/civil war against the most powerful country in the world at the time with the help of france in order to create a place where people can do as they please and the government can never do anything unless there is some input from the common people (voting, representatives)
internal conflicts-
>went to war with the same country that we broke away from in 1812, lost the capitol building but won the war.
>IN 1823, with the Monroe Doctrine, the United States declared it would oppose any attempts to create any more colonies in the Western Hemisphere, and do so by force if need be.
>In 1861, began a bloody civil war that cost thousands of lives in order to keep the vows made when our nation was formed, and refused to allow us to stand divided. United we stood, and still stand.
>In 1891, the United States fought a 10-week war with Spain to enforce the Monroe Doctrine by enforcing Cuba's Freedom.
>In 1903, the Wirght brothers, born in Ohio, built the first practical fixed wing aircraft, the predecessor to all modern airplanes.
>In 1917, the United States entered World War One after Great Britain showed a decoded telegram from germany to Mexico requesting mexico go to war against the U.S., and would recieve Germany's help. The United States played a decicive role in the ALlied Victory, and was useful even down to its sport of Baseball, as American Soldiers were adept at throwing hand grenades because of the sport while most other nation hadn't a clue.
>In 1920, the United States entered the Great Depression, with some of the worst living condition we have ever known.
>On December 7, 1941, The Japanese attacked the U.S. Navy in Pearl Harbor, bringing us into WWII and nearly crippling our chances of a quick reaction in the pacific theater had the Aircraft Carriers not been out of harbor that morning.
> On June 6, 1941, a joint force consisting mainly oAMerican, British, and some Canadian (thanks for that, by the way) Forces launched the largest naval invasion in world history in normandy, France in order to begin retaking Europe from Nazi Germany.
>In 1945, World War Two came to a close with Allied Victory in the Liberation of Europe and Asia from Axis control from Germany and Japan, both of which commited acts of mass genocide by killing millions of civilians in concentration camps and death camps.
>In 1950, the United States was the primary member of the newly formed United Nations who moved troops into South Korea to defend agains the communist invasion from North Korea, and while not official ending as of yet South Korea has remained free and has not suffered from effects of North Korean Dictatorship.
>With much controversey, America forced citizens to go to war in Vietnam to defend South VIetnam from the communist North. While it oficially ended in victory with the north vietnamese surrender, North Vietnam reinvaded South Vietnam almost immediatly after the United States withdrew. This is one war i believe America did not use enough common sense in and was to agressive against the insurgent Viet Cong (who were NOT freedom fighters, they were the Vietnamese Communist Party) who blended with native villagers. Biggest mistake my nation has made i feel.
>In the 1990's the United States and United Nations declared war against Iraq after the invasion of Kuwait. Saddam Hussien, the dictatorial leader of iraq, commited acts of genocide by using chemical weapons against civilian villages.

Also, the United States has been extremely active in foreign aid, and also most tension in the Middle East has been caused by generations of civil War and also the Soviet Invasions of Afghanistan.
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:54 pm

Hmm, the most powerful and globally dominating country on the planet..

You live in Vatican City?
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:01 pm

First_Sith_Sitting wrote:
Hmm, the most powerful and globally dominating country on the planet..

You live in Vatican City?

No, we live in the 21st century.

Although I wonder if the pope could call a crusade to the same effect now. Or excommunicate a leader.

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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:12 pm

It IS JUSTIFIED. The al quieta, al queta, whatever, attacked us on american soil. They declared war on the U.S, automaticly justifing any casulties on there side. People die during war, btu what they did was not war, it was terrorism. i would have just Nuked them, make it easyer and not such a long war against these pests in there rat holes they call homes over there on the dust bowl they call whatever
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:13 pm

First_Sith_Sitting wrote:
Hmm, the most powerful and globally dominating country on the planet..

You live in Vatican City?

Vatican city doesn't have enough nuclear warheads to eliminate all surface dwelling organisms on the planet several times over (overkill, much us? why not use some of them.

Also, i would have liked to find out how the Pope would have tried to talk a cuban dictator out of starting a nuclear holocaust. Or for that matter, how many times has he overthrown a third world dictator half way across the planet?
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PostSubject: Re: War On Terror- yes or no?   Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:18 pm

lordjacob1 wrote:
It IS JUSTIFIED. The al quieta, al queta, whatever, attacked us on american soil. They declared war on the U.S, automaticly justifing any casulties on there side. People die during war, btu what they did was not war, it was terrorism. i would have just Nuked them, make it easyer and not such a long war against these pests in there rat holes they call homes over there on the dust bowl they call whatever

NO NO NO! THIS IS WHY PEOPLE HATE THE UNITED STATES! PEOPLE ARE TURNING FROM CoD FANBOYS TO MORONS!

We have idiots like this one, who think that anyone wearing a turban or a head dress or even lives in the Middle East are automatically qualified to be killed.

NO!!!!!!

99.9% of them are innocent, and about 2/3rds of that like us because we are trying bring back Democracy and peace! People like the one i'm quoting are the idiots who should never be allowed to influence others.
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