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PostSubject: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 4:25 pm

This 'ought to stir things up.

I will not make any starting arguments now, I leave that to others... (Cough CMA.... cough Keon.)
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 8:00 pm

What?

Although I disagree with CMA's opinions, if they are real, they are fine. But what makes me wonder is he seems like he knows he is crazy, like his whole "I'm just a typical angry southern conservative". Was that a joke?

Anyway, lower-left quadrant.

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You know, I was thinking we should have a 3D crafting grid for complex recipes, but Kielaran is right: why have three dimensions when you can have six? Truly I don't know how we ever got by with a measly two.


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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 8:10 pm

Keon wrote:
What?

Although I disagree with CMA's opinions, if they are real, they are fine. But what makes me wonder is he seems like he knows he is crazy, like his whole "I'm just a typical angry southern conservative". Was that a joke?

Anyway, lower-left quadrant.

Haha a "typical angry southern conservative" is rather ironic, since the south has been typically very liberal throughout history. Another funny fact, Black people are mostly democratic, and yet none of them remember that a little over a hundred years ago the democratic party was still trying to keep them in chains. In fact, that HASN'T changed. The democratic party is still devoted to keeping them in chains (of poverty) and also to destroying their race by abortions. And yet they don't see it...

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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 8:18 pm

You give me no proof that it hasn't changed. I say it has. We are stale, until you give some proof it hasn't changed.

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You know, I was thinking we should have a 3D crafting grid for complex recipes, but Kielaran is right: why have three dimensions when you can have six? Truly I don't know how we ever got by with a measly two.


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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 8:51 pm

Well my two points of proof are as follows:

Abortion:
I can't find any proof of this atm, it might be some conspiracy that I've heard somewhere.

Poverty:
Well this is a long and rather skillfully placed plan. It starts in 1865, with the election of Andrew Johnson. He revoked Special Field Order 15:
"Four days later, Sherman issued his Special Field Orders, No. 15. The orders provided for the settlement of 40,000 freed slaves and black refugees on land expropriated from white landowners in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. Sherman appointed Brig. Gen. Rufus Saxton, an abolitionist from Massachusetts who had previously directed the recruitment of black soldiers, to implement that plan. Those orders, which became the basis of the claim that the Union government had promised freed slaves "40 acres and a mule", were revoked later that year by President Andrew Johnson."

And allowed the creation of the black codes:
"The state governments installed by Johnson all passed Black Codes that gave the freedmen subordinate legal status."

He also vetoed many important bills that would have helped the black community:
"He ushered through the Congress a bill expanding the Freedman's Bureau, but Johnson vetoed it. In a second effort at compromise, Trumbull presented for Johnson's signature the first Civil Rights Bill, which sought to grant citizenship to the freedmen. Although strongly urged by moderates in Congress to sign the Civil Rights Bill, Johnson broke decisively with them by vetoing it on March 27. "

Obviously, a downright racist. If only Lincoln hadn't been assassinated...
"This is a country for white men, and by God, as long as I am President, it shall be a government for white men." -Johnson

Now these moves pushed blacks into a downward spiral into poverty. Not allowed to vote by the black codes and segregation keeping them from being educated properly and excelling, they stayed almost the same as when they were enslaved for another 100 YEARS!!!! Not until 1954, Brown v. Board of Education, does black rights finally get any recognition. At this point, most of the black population is poor and educated. Now the democrats figure that they can't keep the blacks down much longer outright, so they just add some incentive to not excel. And so welfare is born. (not saying that welfare was created for totally racist reasons, FDR probably THOUGHT it was going to help... And just to clarify, FDR did NOTHING to end the great depression, WWII turned up conveniently to do that for him.)

Now a days, Obama is just making things worse. Look at this layout of the spending of the ARRA:

Total: $82.2 billion
$40 billion to provide extended unemployment benefits through Dec 31, and increase them by $25 a week
$19.9 billion for the Food Stamp Program
$14.2 billion to give one-time $250 payments to Social Security recipients, people on Supplemental Security Income, and veterans receiving disability and pensions.
$3.45 billion for job training
$3.2 billion in temporary welfare payments (TANF and WIC)
$500 million for vocational training for the disabled
$400 million for employment services
$120 million for subsidized community service jobs for older Americans
$150 million to help refill food banks
$100 million for meals programs for seniors, such as Meals on Wheels
$100 million for free school lunch programs

Top two? Unemployment and food stamps. Point proven. Blacks are poor (stereotype I know, but its pretty true most places) and so they benefit from this the most. Which allows them to not work and not want to better themselves. Which keeps them away from any position of power. Just as the democrats in 1865 wanted.

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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 9:10 pm

Hmmm.....

Slavery. One crime owls never commited.

Anyway, I doubt each leader was connected into a ring of conspiricy.
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 9:24 pm

No I agree, this isn't some wild conspiracy theory, I'm just showing why the democratic support of economic help bills and such is actually racist (though probably not in any sane democrat's mind).

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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 10:04 pm

Now, the democrats of the past and republicans of the past are fundamentally different from those of today. Republicans and Democrats would never promote slavery today. The most basic difference is the democrats want more "Safety nets".

This is just personal preferance really, I see it one way, you see it another. In fact, if that was all there was, I would be in the middle. I don't see having a safety net the same as putting up a sign saying "HEY PEEPS, JUMP INTO SAFETY NET!"

But the republican party has other things wrong with it that I dissagree with. And so do the democrats. But overall, the Republicans have more problems.

I care about the environment, first of all. We need that.

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You know, I was thinking we should have a 3D crafting grid for complex recipes, but Kielaran is right: why have three dimensions when you can have six? Truly I don't know how we ever got by with a measly two.


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Now, if Fr0stbyte wrote that, someone would make a sig, guaranteed. So what are you going to do now?
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 10:06 pm

Keon wrote:
Now, the democrats of the past and republicans of the past are fundamentally different from those of today. Republicans and Democrats would never promote slavery today. The most basic difference is the democrats want more "Safety nets".

This is just personal preferance really, I see it one way, you see it another. In fact, if that was all there was, I would be in the middle. I don't see having a safety net the same as putting up a sign saying "HEY PEEPS, JUMP INTO SAFETY NET!"

But the republican party has other things wrong with it that I dissagree with. And so do the democrats. But overall, the Republicans have more problems.

I care about the environment, first of all. We need that.
LOL, yes. There are some things that I disagree with about both the Republicans and the Democrats, but the problem right now is that the Republicans seem to be unable to produce a candidate who doesn't have some huge, glaring flaw.

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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Fri May 04, 2012 11:41 pm

Keon wrote:

Republicans and Democrats would never promote slavery today

While very true, I just think that by promoting government assistance you are basically promoting a form of slavery. And this form exists for any race, it is just much more real for the blacks as they were truly enslaved in the past.

Keon wrote:

I care about the environment, first of all. We need that.

I agree. I to care for the environment. But the reason I am a republican is that I don't want the GOVERNMENT to tell me how I have to care about the environment. That's not it's job. I encourage the development of electric cars. But I don't want the government to shove them down my throat. When green energy cars become a viable alternative to expensive gasoline then they will sell like hotcakes without any help from the government, that's how capitalism works. But until that point leave them for the hippys.

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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 12:06 am

So what you're saying is:

"I won't help save our planet from becoming barren because the government told me to!"

Sounds a lot like the US's behavior concerning the Kyoto Protocol - that of an obstinate teenager. Now look where we are now.
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 2:02 am

American politics Rolling Eyes

I tried to understand WTH is going on there , failed ...
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 3:44 am

Well if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that nobody cares about non-US politics.
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 4:04 am

Even US cares about non-US politics. Even such a country like the US needs constant supplies from outside and so the US is interested in favourable conditions in the supplying countries such as loyal oil princes in Saudi (even though you have your own oil). Besides in an age where the existence of atomic bombs balance empires and small states the US cares about the bomb in north Korea, Iran, Pakistan or even friendly countries such as Israel . It's true that everyone cares about US politics though.

Oh and I do care about the politics in my country as it's going to affect my life for the next 4 years ...
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 9:22 am

The U.S. cares about getting the best price on oil, getting cheap labor to construct cheap plastic toys for happy meals, and stopping the spread of communism, which is directly non-U.S. politics, so we do care about other countries politics.
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 10:20 am

Communism? Wait I'll open up a dictionary - C... Com ... computer , no it's prior to it ... commotion ... communication ... communion ... communism - a Regime based on turning rich into poor to insure the poorness of all citizens, that passed from this world ...

So no communism? Oh there is this: *Though North Korea is considered communistic it's frozen back in the 60s-70s and so communism present in such form has passed from the world too .

Ok basically fighting the spread of communism is not a goal anymore ... unless fighting Russians is the goal as then the US has long lost this battle - the US has many Russian immigrants. Otherwise congratz you have defeated the source of all s*** in our world in the 20th century, oh wait there was Germany ...

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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 10:27 am

See, world politics depress me. And why do I even care about Obama vs Romney? They are practically the same!



Sounds like a one party state to me.

Anyway, how about turning this economy around. Each tax paying citizen owes 90,000. So over 30 to 50 years, much like a long term loan, we pay them off with 3,000 or less per year of tax, of course scaled for those who can't afford it and increased for the billionaires. Then, balance the budget by cutting whatever it takes. Now it just remains to be seen whether China will attack.

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You know, I was thinking we should have a 3D crafting grid for complex recipes, but Kielaran is right: why have three dimensions when you can have six? Truly I don't know how we ever got by with a measly two.


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Now, if Fr0stbyte wrote that, someone would make a sig, guaranteed. So what are you going to do now?
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 10:40 am

It's funny how our favorite sci-fi franchise divides us the same if not more than our politics.

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You know, I was thinking we should have a 3D crafting grid for complex recipes, but Kielaran is right: why have three dimensions when you can have six? Truly I don't know how we ever got by with a measly two.


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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 10:53 am

Legion wrote:
So what you're saying is:

"I won't help save our planet from becoming barren because the government told me to!"

Sounds a lot like the US's behavior concerning the Kyoto Protocol - that of an obstinate teenager. Now look where we are now.

That is not what I was saying. What I was saying is that I don't want the government to tell me what to do. If I want to save the environment, then I will do it. If I say screw the environment, then I want to be able to do that too. The government shouldn't have the right to make me protect anything if I don't want to. This stems from the fact that I don't think that much of anything the government does succeeds. If I want to protect the environment, I will find the best and most successful way of doing it, not just what the government thinks is the best way of doing it.

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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 10:54 am

Keon wrote:
See, world politics depress me. And why do I even care about Obama vs Romney? They are practically the same!
Anyway, how about turning this economy around. Each tax paying citizen owes 90,000. So over 30 to 50 years, much like a long term loan, we pay them off with 3,000 or less per year of tax, of course scaled for those who can't afford it and increased for the billionaires. Then, balance the budget by cutting whatever it takes. Now it just remains to be seen whether China will attack.

It won't as even though its the most powerful economy in the world: 1. it depends on western companies to give it work.
2. The US has atomics remember those little guys ? Second place after Russia - the China of all atomic bombs Razz .
3. What the hell did they forget in the US ? Unless they're fanatics (they are not) ...
4. Talkin about fanatics I'd care more about Iran - China has atomic bombs already ...

Oh problem is that your left and right is more about economy and conservation. Here for example left and right is decided by global political ideals and opinions about the Palestinians ... Your presidents are somewhat inconsistent in those questions. Takin the Iran problem for example - at first Obama didn't give a s*** about it, and then our prime minister did a great job putting into his head that Iran is a huge threat that is going to swallow the world. A while after that America panics for a bit that Iran will start atomic war, a while later the president talk that it's possible to solve everything with dialogue. I would probably agree with him if I weren't from the middle east where peace talks are usually another word for doing nothing (Currently we are in a middle of peace dialogue about the conditions of peace dialogue with the Palestinians Rolling Eyes ...) . Here stuff is long solved by raw force ... Iran will probably be no exception.

Personally I prefer that Obama won't stay for another cadence as he hates Israel ... It's balanced by that small but influential Jewish 1% for now but if he wins he won't be able to return for another cadence and so he won't care about elections , won't give a damn about that tinny 1% and probably will be anti-Israeli as much as he can. I have no idea who's Romney in this question but I prefer Obama gone ...
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 11:18 am

This will surely depress every American here.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 12:27 pm

Iv121 wrote:

Personally I prefer that Obama won't stay for another cadence as he hates Israel ... It's balanced by that small but influential Jewish 1% for now but if he wins he won't be able to return for another cadence and so he won't care about elections , won't give a damn about that tinny 1% and probably will be anti-Israeli as much as he can. I have no idea who's Romney in this question but I prefer Obama gone ...

Agreed. And if a country is anti-Israeli, that country isn't long for this world. Numbers 24:9 "Blessed are those who bless you, and cursed are those who curse you.”

Also, I would tirade about how any TRUE Muslim is made to attack the USA by their religion and that any Muslim that isn't planning to attack the USA is about as devoted to their faith as most of the USA is devoted to Christianity. But I will control myself.

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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 3:06 pm

hyperlite wrote:
The U.S. cares about getting the best price on oil, getting cheap labor to construct cheap plastic toys for happy meals, and stopping the spread of communism, which is directly non-U.S. politics, so we do care about other countries politics.
You forgot the part of "if only to preserve our own interest."
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 10:25 pm

The problem with allowing people to choose for themselves is that, in all essence, people choose what's easier and cheaper. Although gas is expensive, it is still MUCH cheaper than electric cars. And we're running out of options. People usually never consider long-term options, and go for what's best currently and stick with it.

It's the story of Freedom and Well-Being. Give them freedom and they're happy, but they end up screwing something up (Like the environment). Do things for their well being (Like banning plastic bags) will anger them but it will protect more important long-term matters (Like the environment).

This is why I promote my system of government.
The Monarch, chosen by the people and elected by the council, writes up and submits laws to the council. He has power over the military in wartime and only controls some matters in peacetime. To be a Monarch, there are few limits. The person has to be well educated and over 20 years of age, needing to have graduated from a 2 year college at least. This rule can be bypassed, especially when a extraordinarily bright student under 20 or a smart person without access to education is submitted by the population. Each candidate needs at least 10,000 votes from their home province and 5,000 from other provinces to become a candidate. A new Monarch is elected or re-elected every 5 years. There is no limit on how many times a Monarch can be re-elected, but it only occurs if the Monarch is extremely popular and good.

The council is a group, with two representatives from each province, that discusses and passes forward laws submitted by the general public and the Monarch. These representatives are elected by the people of the province. They can submit laws, but they come through as citizen petitions. They also have the power to remove the current Monarch from office and choose another one from the candidates for Monarch from the last election. They need 15,000 home province votes to be placed on the list of potential candidates for the council. They are elected to the council by the provincial governments.

The provincial governments are consisted of 20 individuals that make decisions for the province. They can pass small scale laws for their province that don't have large impacts on the population for their province based on the current situation. If a province is deemed corrupt or inefficient, the council can intervene and remove provincial members from office, and the Monarch chooses who replaces them from people elected by the citizens. They can also remove the Monarch from office by impeaching him. They can also impeach council members.

The numbers WILL vary based on country population, and it is only a rough idea. Many important topics left out.

The point is, I vote for people who are most likely to affect the nation in a positive and long-lasting way. The U.S is way behind on education, and three of the four republican candidates want to remove the Federal Bureau of Education, making it state-run. It would be disastrous with the way our economy is right now, and hundreds of schools would close down, adding to the already problematic school overcrowding and funding issues would skyrocket.
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PostSubject: Re: Political opinions   Sat May 05, 2012 10:30 pm

Palpatine kept the galaxy running reasonably well for 20 years. That's all that's important.

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