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Commander Kobialka
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PostSubject: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:55 pm

So, I have heard that stargates will probably be the most likely form of transportation in futurecraft. I think stargates should go something like this:

1: stargate is built in ship yard.
2: stargate is sent into orbit by a carrier. (also built in the shipyard)
3: once in space, you can use a computer on the ground to tell it what you want it to link to. (you right click on a block that would be the computer and a list of stargates come up. Next to the name of each stargate is it's creator, and the faction they belong to. When you select that gate, it shows a small map of the area that the stargate you want to link yours to, is above. Then you click either "confirm" or "cancel". Clicking cancel brings you back to the list. Clicking confirm will send you to a screen where you name your stargate. This can only be done ONE TIME. Then, when you fly your ship through it in the realm that will supposedly be "space" when the mod is out, you will be transported a few hundred blocks around that stargate.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:12 pm

Gates are an important aspect which defines how servers communicate with one another. They will not be constructable and cannot be placed by players.

I suppose an admin could change its appearance or location in the star system, but it will never be something just anyone can mess with.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:50 pm

That begs the question - couldn't people on a server just camp outside a gate for easy kills?

Of course, the answer would be you'd just ban them, but ambushing is a perfectly legitimate tactic and I'm wondering how you'll distinguish between the aforementioned and the latter.

Invulnerability for a short time isn't feasible either, since invading fleets could swiftly take out the defenders while in that grace period.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:00 pm

I have no problem with camping. Worked fine in EVE.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:06 pm

Camping is fine.

If we really have a problem with it in the beta, we introduce a way to get around it, say a weapon that creates a temporary gate at the other end that is in a different place from the normal one.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:38 pm

Keon wrote:
Camping is fine.

If we really have a problem with it in the beta, we introduce a way to get around it, say a weapon that creates a temporary gate at the other end that is in a different place from the normal one.
Kostura Cannon, anyone?
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:48 pm

fr0stbyte124 wrote:
I have no problem with camping. Worked fine in EVE.

But we're talking about people's creations here. It seems that this would lead to widespread rage and quitting across the board.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:00 pm

Yeah, that's why we're making mass production easy.
Besides, there will be completely separate star systems for creative play where players won't ever have to get into unplanned fights.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:03 pm

Camping should definitely be allowed. Your saying that you want a fleet to be able to warp in and start destroying your beloved home planet before you can do anything about it?
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:07 pm

Tiel wrote:
fr0stbyte124 wrote:
I have no problem with camping. Worked fine in EVE.

But we're talking about people's creations here. It seems that this would lead to widespread rage and quitting across the board.
Really if you aren't mature enough to deal with things like this in a mod that has a large point in fighting then maybe you aren't all that valid a part of the community. So, fighting players need to suck it up and creatives need to stay in the creative universe.
Also, how often do people full on rage quit from something, I mean I have seen a lot of day or two rage quitters, but almost never a full out break disc walk away. Or in this case delete minecraft walk away, and before you ask I have seen the disc break before and it is funny.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:09 pm

Do you think we should make space mines a thing? I think it would be cool to have.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:12 pm

Danice123 wrote:
Camping should definitely be allowed. Your saying that you want a fleet to be able to warp in and start destroying your beloved home planet before you can do anything about it?

I was saying there's a difference between stat padding and defense, and was wondering how FC would differentiate between the two. Apparently though, it appears I can just wait outside my gate and murder anything that comes through, log off and let my AI do the work for me. Sounds fair, no?

Essentially this is just guaranteeing entire servers being undesirable for players for the actions of a few, and consequently the network of said playing areas will be reduced due to no one wanting to get raped as soon as they warp in. Camping is gamebreaking, and I have no clue how they handled it in Eve, but in most MC servers the spawn is a strictly no-PvP area. I think this should hold true in this mod as well.

Dr. Thunder, Tunnel wrote:
Tiel wrote:
fr0stbyte124 wrote:
I have no problem with camping. Worked fine in EVE.

But we're talking about people's creations here. It seems that this would lead to widespread rage and quitting across the board.
Really if you aren't mature enough to deal with things like this in a mod that has a large point in fighting then maybe you aren't all that valid a part of the community. So, fighting players need to suck it up and creatives need to stay in the creative universe.
Also, how often do people full on rage quit from something, I mean I have seen a lot of day or two rage quitters, but almost never a full out break disc walk away. Or in this case delete minecraft walk away, and before you ask I have seen the disc break before and it is funny.

Have you ever been to an anarchy server? Try to live in one for a few weeks, then we'll talk. Nothing is constant which leads to a ton of disorientation and anger, regardless of maturity level. On that note, what happens when your planet gets blown up? Where will you respawn?


Last edited by Tiel on Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:15 pm

fr0stbyte124 wrote:
Do you think we should make space mines a thing? I think it would be cool to have.
Yes. Funny everyone post ideas I just built mine on the server of course mine was simple because it was mine.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:30 pm

No space mines.

If you want, abandoned spaceships with tnt that explode when you get close.

And for the anarchy, I think we need two things: A spawn that is no pvp, so you can safely get to your home planet before you get blown up. And second, diplomatic vessels that cannot be attacked and have no weapons.

How will we handle AIs?

I mean, I log off, so does my ship just float there?

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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:13 am

fr0stbyte124 wrote:
Do you think we should make space mines a thing? I think it would be cool to have.

yeaaaaaahhh Space mines


As long as i can detect them and barely see them im good.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:34 am

I think that "camping" should be allowed, as it is a legitimate tactic. Besides, people will be notified that ships are on their way to their planet. Unless of course they have a Jump Gate, in which case, you only get about 10 seconds warning before your enemy gate in, which is about enough time to pull up your shield around the gate. And folks, that is why you only use Jump Gates on diplomatic or trade missions. Because if you invade through someone else's jump gate, their shields will vaporize your entire fleet without so much as chance to fight back.

To avoid "camping" as much as possible, make it so that you can exit hyperspace at any location within the destination star system. That way the enemy can know that you are coming, but don't know exactly where.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:54 am

I'm thinking it should be something like this:



Relays are built by admins and there is only 1 per star system, so if you have a large server the owner can use them for interserver travel. The nice thing about Mass Effect's gates is that you don't have to end up on the corresponding relay; it only launches you in the general direction and modifications to your trajectory can be made while in transit.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:53 am

I still don't like the idea of stargates in the mod...


unless of course its super complicated, non-stargate (in appearance) and nerfed to hell


just my opinion on it
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:12 pm

Then do tell dear CMA, how are we to achieve interstellar travel without anything similar to stargates?
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:46 pm

Tiel wrote:
Then do tell dear CMA, how are we to achieve interstellar travel without anything similar to stargates?
Warp drives
hyperdrives
Skip Drives
General Products hulls
Phase jumping
Tardises (tardisi?)
telepathy
pinlighting
Need I go on?
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:54 pm

Did you mention whatever "drive" thing was in the foundation trilogy? the infinite near identical dimension thing

seems pretty dangerous though
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:00 pm

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Then do tell dear CMA, how are we to achieve interstellar travel without anything similar to stargates?
Warp drives
hyperdrives
Skip Drives
General Products hulls
Phase jumping
Tardises (tardisi?)
telepathy
pinlighting
Need I go on?

If I'm reading this right he thinks that stargates would be too easy to make. So, none of the above?
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:21 pm

Tiel wrote:
Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Then do tell dear CMA, how are we to achieve interstellar travel without anything similar to stargates?
Warp drives
hyperdrives
Skip Drives
General Products hulls
Phase jumping
Tardises (tardisi?)
telepathy
pinlighting
Need I go on?

If I'm reading this right he thinks that stargates would be too easy to make. So, none of the above?
I'm not sure what you mean by this post. Who thinks stargates would be too simple? Why would that eliminate any of these possibilities? Why can't there be more than one way?

CoalMiningAlchemist wrote:
Did you mention whatever "drive" thing was in the foundation trilogy? the infinite near identical dimension thing

seems pretty dangerous though
No, I didn't. I haven't read Foundation, but I've been meaning to. I forgot the Improbability Drive, too.
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:27 pm

Tiel wrote:
Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Then do tell dear CMA, how are we to achieve interstellar travel without anything similar to stargates?
Warp drives
hyperdrives
Skip Drives
General Products hulls
Phase jumping
Tardises (tardisi?)
telepathy
pinlighting
Need I go on?

If I'm reading this right he thinks that stargates would be too easy to make. So, none of the above?

no, I just think its kind of cheap to blatantly ripoff Stargate like that, and it takes most of the usefulness out of ships
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PostSubject: Re: stargates for the mod   Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:04 pm

You said you wanted them to be more complex to make, I interpreted that as meaning you think they'd be overpowered.

I don't see a problem with something similar to ME relays though. Constructing a 'Gate', let's call it, would be a complicated and expensive process akin to creating a capital ship. By having these as opposed to something like, say, Hyperspace or Phase Space, it allows servers running the mod to actively connect/disconnect to the main network, and the difficulty of the task will mean none of the idiot servers will have a hope of connecting to the galactic network early in FC's release.

And no, it doesn't decrease the usefulness of spacecraft in general. You can't fly around in a Gate; they're stationary. And I think they should be very vulnerable, so a fleet has another priority to defend; that's essentially the only way out of their star system(s)! As said above, a Gate would make much more sense than just warping around in a ship; imo the latter would make ships by themselves overpowered.

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:
Who thinks stargates would be too simple? Why would that eliminate any of these possibilities? Why can't there be more than one way?

1. CMA

2. Because I reasoned at the time that if anything like a Stargate is overpowered, surely a spaceship based system would be even moreso.

3. It would get too confusing. You'd have to defend your space against 3 or more methods of getting in, ditto for the difficulty of attempting to distinguish between a Skip Drive and a Warp Drive. Never mind the duty of coding all that in; no offense but I'd much rather sacrifice useless aesthetic methods of transport that most people will probably never use on a daily basis in exchange for an earlier release date.
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