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Laibach
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:37 pm

GroundBurg_Coder13 wrote:
ectrimble20 wrote:
Quote :
Wireless is actually a real-world thing... my phone has never seen a charging cord in its existence.
If it was truly wireless it would be able to charge in your pocket while you were walking by the charging station.

That would be awesome.

But Doc, we could add this thermal generator as an energy production unit for those who are just starting off, and in itself would be much more efficient than those darn furnaces for smelting. True it is not that efficient, but really? Who, in the almighty Shiva's name, would be stupid enough (my apologies if I offend anyone) to do that sort of thing?

And as ectrimble said in the'power generation' topic, we do need a basic frame work first before we speed ahead onto the advanced generators, keep in mind that in game you start as a random person in the wild, with supposedly no knowledge of the working universe and to just from there straight into building incredibly sophisticated machines in a week is just ... I don't know, maybe this idea is moving more towards evolutioncraft than actual futurecraft.


what is the future without the past?

...or something


you have a point about the tier thing though
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:24 pm

Dr. Mackeroth wrote:
No! No coal in ships. I'm saying if you want to be inefficient
you could power your ship/building with coal, but it is remarkably inefficient,
and only beginners would use it. For a ship of a Dreadnought's size, it would
require hundred of generators, while you could just stick down 2-3 class II nuclear
generator (this is using my old system, which apparently no one can agree on)
for the same effect.

*facepalm*
Our arguments are now the same thing. All praise the Overmind.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:24 pm

ectrimble20 wrote:
Quote :
I think what he meant was an Ion cannon that uses hydro electicity as a power source, not as ammunition or a chemical component to the actual ion shooting.

Well yeah, I got that, but seriously? How impractical do you think that would be?

You'd have it in a fixed position, surrounded by water? Actually.... maybe he's on to something, hell I don't know anymore, I think I'm losing my mind.





And seeing as water negates TNT damage...
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:26 pm

SilentFall wrote:
Dr. Mackeroth wrote:
No! No coal in ships. I'm saying if you want to be inefficient
you could power your ship/building with coal, but it is remarkably inefficient,
and only beginners would use it. For a ship of a Dreadnought's size, it would
require hundred of generators, while you could just stick down 2-3 class II nuclear
generator (this is using my old system, which apparently no one can agree on)
for the same effect.

*facepalm*
Our arguments are now the same thing. All praise the Overmind.

En Taro Tassadar to you too.

Okay. Fine, the on topic stuff now.

Our ships right now have combustion reactors on them. We should use them as the wooden tools. You use them once or twice and then dump them.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:41 pm

Keon wrote:


En Taro Tassadar to you too.

Ah well, I'm not the Overmind.

Maybe we can terraform the planets by activating coal generators, then dumping them into the atmosphere! Or you could just jettison them out to collide with your enemies. Yay for ejection.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:43 pm

Ok I finished coding the combustion engine. It is coded to have a stable output amount of energy, and what you burn in it decides how many ticks it burns for. I need some input on these values. What should the basic output of a combustion engine be (in watts (?) per tick) and how long would certain things burn (eg. 100 ticks for coal, 10 ticks for wood...)
Also ticks are freakin fast so I might slow them down a little for calculating this, maybe 1 power tick per every 10 real ticks...
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:10 pm

Ticks average about 20 per second. I see no reason not to update every tick. One of the advantages of our abstract power network is that it's cheap to update.

I'm fine with watts being our unit of power.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:40 am

True but the problem becomes when energy moves so fast within the network, coal that produces 100 watts at 10 watts a tick is used up in half a second. So the numbers become huge really quickly. But then again large numbers are cool... It really doesn't effect the system as much as the display of the system to the user, and we can tweak that if its really necessary.

Also for unit, how about kveys? kveykva = lightning in the AL. Haha
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:02 am

You know, I need to make a minecraft language pack of the AL. Anyone want to help? We all seem to be such big fans.
OH SHOOT. Dont kill me Mackeroth dontkillmedontkillmedontkillmehelp!
Well, I think 100 watts is to small. Coal burns all night in real life, and would probably make lots more than 100 watts.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:43 am

Perhaps I'm out of the loop, but what (or rather who) the hell is/are AL?

To me, that means, Alabama, which would be a language pack that translates "You all" into "Ya'll" and "Hello" into "Haidare Jim Bob wutchadoin?!?" and "Wife" into "Sister" (or cousin, they can be interchanged).
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:48 am

Keon wrote:

Well, I think 100 watts is too small. Coal burns all night in real life, and would probably make a lot more than 100 watts.
So, you propose to throw one coal into a generator and let it burn for a minecraft day to produce enough power or to have coal burn very fast and make more power then it is said to right now in the mod. Also, don't you need water for coal fire power generation to occur ,to turn a turbine you need steam or something. Although you could just burn the coal and let the carbon-dioxide turn the turbine but burning coal just to make power from the carbon-dioxide it produces sounds a bit low of output. If you burn coal to turn water to steam then this sounds like I will need an infinite bucket of water to keep this running or add another thing to pump constant water into the generator. Don't mean to rain on the parade of 1.)burning things 2.)??? 3.)power!!! In addition I have seen where this has been discussed and just wanted to shed my opinions on it, which is mainly that coal power is COMPLEXICATED. <--(I like it more than complicated even though complexicated is not a word just think it means the same thing as complicated) Just wanted to put notice on this in one short passage filled with my point of view.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:55 am

ectrimble20 wrote:
Perhaps I'm out of the loop, but what (or rather who) the hell is/are AL?

To me, that means, Alabama, which would be a language pack that translates "You all" into "Ya'll" and "Hello" into "Haidare Jim Bob wutchadoin?!?" and "Wife" into "Sister" (or cousin, they can be interchanged).

Is that off topic? Maybe, I think I see the Bald Man pardox coming on...
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:47 am

ectrimble20 wrote:
Perhaps I'm out of the loop, but what (or rather who) the hell is/are AL?

To me, that means, Alabama, which would be a language pack that translates "You all" into "Ya'll" and "Hello" into "Haidare Jim Bob wutchadoin?!?" and "Wife" into "Sister" (or cousin, they can be interchanged).





AL is the ancient language from the Inheritance Cycle.
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Laibach
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:34 am

ectrimble20 wrote:
Perhaps I'm out of the loop, but what (or rather who) the hell is/are AL?

To me, that means, Alabama, which would be a language pack that translates "You all" into "Ya'll" and "Hello" into "Haidare Jim Bob wutchadoin?!?" and "Wife" into "Sister" (or cousin, they can be interchanged).

LOL

at least we don't talk like that in Georgia...

well, the good part anyway

AL is the ancient language from the Eragon books
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:46 pm

Power estimations:

Combustion engine running for one day: 240,000 K (at 10 K/t) (at 1000 ticks per coal, it would take 240 peices of coal to do this)
Solar Cell running for one day: about 12,000 K (at 1 K/t)
Hydro Generator running for one day: 2,400 K (at 1/10 K/t)
Wind Mill running for one day: 240 K (at 1/100 K/t)
Nuclear Plant running for one day: 2,240,000 K (at 100 K/t)
That^+1 generator running for one day: 20,400,000 K (at 1000 K/t)

I'm just throwing numbers around at the moment, but how does that sound?
20,400 Kilokveys per day for the tier above Nuclear energy is... pretty intense.

And remember, this is ONE Solar cell producing 12 Kilokveys a day.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:21 pm

Power estimations revised:

Combustion engine running for one day: 24 MK (at 1,000 K/t) (at 1000 ticks per coal, it would take 240 peices of coal to do this)
Solar Cell running for one day: about 1200 kK (at 100 K/t)
Hydro Generator running for one day: 240 kK (at 10 K/t)
Wind Mill running for one day: 24 kK (at 1 K/t)
Nuclear Plant running for one day: 240 MK (at 10,000 K/t)
That^+1 generator running for one day: 2,400 MK (at 100,000 K/t)

Setting the smallest generator to 1 K/t
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:05 pm

Watt is a measure of current over time. You wouldn't need to make it per tick. Just say watt.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:23 pm

I'm not saying watts per tick. I'm saying kveys per tick lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:11 pm

Danice123 wrote:
Power estimations revised:

Combustion engine running for one day: 24 MK (at 1,000 K/t) (at 1000 ticks per coal, it would take 240 peices of coal to do this)
Solar Cell running for one day: about 1200 kK (at 100 K/t)
Hydro Generator running for one day: 240 kK (at 10 K/t)
Wind Mill running for one day: 24 kK (at 1 K/t)
Nuclear Plant running for one day: 240 MK (at 10,000 K/t)
That^+1 generator running for one day: 2,400 MK (at 100,000 K/t)

Setting the smallest generator to 1 K/t

wait, i hate to be nit-picky, but how does the combustion engine work? is it an internal combustion engine> or does it capture the heat and use it to turn turbine sor something?
sorry, but I hate the seemingly magical properties of the basic generators of IC2 and similar machines

thanks!

EDIT: also coal should be more powerful than a solar cell, its the second most efficient fuel IRL im pretty sure
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:50 pm

As of now, the combustion engine is a block. It may become more than that, but for now it is what it is. And coal is 10 times as powerful than solar in K/t.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:32 pm

Hey guys. Remember when I was posting those fancy charts a long time ago? This is what I was calculating. Here is my chart.


Energy Sources P-Ratio S-Ratio
Oil .75 1.5
Log .25 .4
Plank .0625 .4
Leaves .03 .75
Sapling .03 .5
Biofuel .7 1.5
Stick .03 .6
P-Ratio = Total Energy Ratio to Coal, S-Ratio = Burning Speed to Coal.

Coal is worth 1000 eu each, and burns at a speed of .625/t. One second is 20 ticks.

Do you think that I have a good idea of burn time and power ratio? I just thought it is funny that you are all trying so hard to redo what I have already figured out. Maybe you would like to change something on here, but I tried my best to make this chart as balanced as possible. I could also add more generators and combustibles to this list, but I would need someone to list for me these things.

P.S. I just realized that Charcoal messes up my ratios because it is a sub-id of coal and we can't have people pulling energy out of nothing. I'll have to adjust the wood based levels to work around this.

P.S.S. I have a feeling that it would just be better to make Charcoal its own ID and give it a separate value. Wood would become to useful if I had coal = charcoal.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:29 am

tonyri wrote:
Hey guys. Remember when I was posting those fancy charts a long time ago? This is what I was calculating. Here is my chart.


Energy Sources P-Ratio S-Ratio
Oil .75 1.5
Log .25 .4
Plank .0625 .4
Leaves .03 .75
Sapling .03 .5
Biofuel .7 1.5
Stick .03 .6
P-Ratio = Total Energy Ratio to Coal, S-Ratio = Burning Speed to Coal.

Coal is worth 1000 eu each, and burns at a speed of .625/t. One second is 20 ticks.

Do you think that I have a good idea of burn time and power ratio? I just thought it is funny that you are all trying so hard to redo what I have already figured out. Maybe you would like to change something on here, but I tried my best to make this chart as balanced as possible. I could also add more generators and combustibles to this list, but I would need someone to list for me these things.

P.S. I just realized that Charcoal messes up my ratios because it is a sub-id of coal and we can't have people pulling energy out of nothing. I'll have to adjust the wood based levels to work around this.

P.S.S. I have a feeling that it would just be better to make Charcoal its own ID and give it a separate value. Wood would become to useful if I had coal = charcoal.
Why give it a new ID? Its been proven more than possible for metadata to subsistute item IDs, its just not normally done because if a mod has that many IDs it probably uses MCF, which allows the use of item IDs 257-32000. I see no reason to separate charcoal completely and waste both time and a item id while its perfectly possible to just change the burn rate and value of coal-1(metadata 1), aka charcoal.

A interesting little tibit, with the 1.0 update, if you wanted to, you could compress every single item in vanilla minecraft down to a single item ID. Blocks could be too, but the sheer millions of tile entitys would be a MASSIVE hit to performance, if MC would run at all.

If you want a example, just look at IC2, the energy-based tools and energy storage devices in paticular.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:03 am

Buggy1997123 wrote:
lots of words
I agree but I like his/her graphs.
*charts
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:06 pm

Tonyri is a boy, I think. Bronies outnumber pegasisters by quite a bit. And his profile says so.

RAINBOWDASH IS BETTER THAN FLUTTERSHY!

Interesting graph.
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PostSubject: Re: Power System Layout   Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:03 pm

My moderator sense in tingling...

I took care of it
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