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 Overdue Enlightenment

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Saravanth
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:05 pm

ACH0225 wrote:
The people who will do things like farm or make cities will be vastly outnumbered by people who PvP, and the mod should reflect that. If that changes, the mod can adjust.
Have you proof? Yes, human nature is sick, but despite that sanity's and vision's seed are grown enough to make most people prefer art and peace above war.

Have you perhaps heard of the game "Wurm Online"? Well, probably, I think it was too made by Notch before Minecraft. I played it for a while, on the PvP-Server. Although violence was present, and our factions were at war anyways, most people stood inside our borders, expanding and refining our own villages and cities. I do not say the soldiers were a minority, no, they posed about 30% - 40% of the population, but they did not fight at the front full time. Actually, only about 5% did raid the other factions, the others just protected the civilian players from being raided themself inside the homelands' borders.


Last edited by Saravanth on Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:34 pm

You said it in the OP. Besides, the only population we have right now to look at is this forum, and the majority of the topics involve combat.
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Saravanth
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:42 pm

ACH0225 wrote:
You said it in the OP. Besides, the only population we have right now to look at is this forum, and the majority of the topics involve combat.
Started to modify my post above yours before you wrote that. And no, I did not say they would be "vastly outnumbered", that is a bit exaggerating. Yes, I know that very well, and the problem is just nobody really focussing on civilian ideas. Or the roleplay usually being only about faction wars. I am writing a few ideas down, when they all are ready I will post them in the idea center as they are partially all linked together.
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:52 pm

Frankly, this should be in the idea center.

Anyways, the soldiers are going to be the majority. If 30-40% are soldiers, then that is the vast majority. Civilian ideas have been discussed already, but they're all fairly simple, just expansions on what's already there. We need 15 types of guns, but not 15 types of farms, simply because people who fight(semi-regularly) will be roughly 80%. The percent that farms, even part time will be maybe 25%. This is a huge gap, and should be reflected in the mod.
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Saravanth
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:13 am

Everyone will probably fight, not only 80%. But who knows, the minecraft community has only grown that way because of lacking complexity on minecrafts side.

But I am not saying we need 15 types of farms. I am saying we need new stuff, not only expansions. Or at least more complex systems that need specialisation and further investigation on the players side to be effectively used. Medics giving out self made painkillers instead of porkchops. Architects using holographic creative mode to create schematics of buildings and making machines construct it instead of placing every single block yourself. Advanced Miners maintaining actual strip mines on a volcanic planet instead of iron pickaxes and manual drills. Having stuff necessary for progressing be deep and time consuming. That would create professions. Yes, people will fight, of course! But one man firing a rifle can not at the same time manufacture twenty more for his comrades, or produce food or medicine. Making the current systems more complex and adding our own will lead to healthy symbiosis between those who fight and those who make it even possible!
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:48 am

Dude, all that's already been planned ages ago. I thought you meant newer stuff besides that.
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:49 am

Apparently everyone forgot it. I think it's time to revive it.
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:58 am

That is your problem sara, you accuse me in being childish while still trying to push the "all things future" idea. See I'm not even going to argue, and yes your coding skill matters - if you can’t code it your words are meaningless, you'll have to convince someone your idea is good enough to make it happen. If you think you have what it takes to convince then you can go ahead, if not you better learn coding, as simple as that.

I have no point of view to promote I give you facts - if you want something to be done you need someone to do it, and if it wont be you you'll need to convince someone else, you need to convince him what you want is more important than what he's currently doing, and as much as I like farming guns will come first and your inability to make this logical connection is probably the reason I try to actually say something here, you dream instead of thinking how to realise things, what builds upon what and what is dependent on each other, you cannot build here a farm first and ship mechanics later and if you won't understand that you won't be able to neither code nor convince a coder to help you (Yea ofc people have their own crazy s*** in mind and might just help you but chances are not big)
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:37 am

Iv121 wrote:
That is your problem sara, you accuse me in being childish while still trying to push the "all things future" idea. See I'm not even going to argue, and yes your coding skill matters - if you can’t code it your words are meaningless, you'll have to convince someone your idea is good enough to make it happen. If you think you have what it takes to convince then you can go ahead, if not you better learn coding, as simple as that.

I have no point of view to promote I give you facts - if you want something to be done you need someone to do it, and if it wont be you you'll need to convince someone else, you need to convince him what you want is more important than what he's currently doing, and as much as I like farming guns will come first and your inability to make this logical connection is probably the reason I try to actually say something here, you dream instead of thinking how to realise things, what builds upon what and what is dependent on each other, you cannot build here a farm first and ship mechanics later and if you won't understand that you won't be able to neither code nor convince a coder to help you (Yea ofc people have their own crazy s*** in mind and might just help you but chances are not big)
Alright, before I read on - Tiel called you childish, not I.
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:29 am

Alright, now that I have read on I must say I am a bit speechless regarding the irony. I could accuse you of every single point you just tried to accuse me of.

-I gave you facts, you did only assume.
-The code is the medium, understand that. The idea behind it is what matters, and if that is clear and detailed there is not much difficulty implementing it. Especially in our case, where we are building it from almost scratch.
-I did never mention those things were more important than what fr0st is currently doing. Heck, they are not, by far. But war is neither. But I did say that the path leading to space itself is at least just as important.
-About dreaming instead of thinking: Even before I started this thread I began working on and writing down ideas for features that would add depth to this game on a new scale. Some are new, others have already been there and I refined them. The only reason I did not post them by now is that they all hang together, and not all are written down and postable yet.
-For real, where do you think do your weapons come from? If you do not like the order 1.Farm 2.Guns 3.Ship what order would you the hell do it then!?
-You do not build a tower from heavens down, but begin from the very foundation. And that is the order we have to plan this. From the foundation. To build the paths we provide the player with first hand-experience.

Iv, I don't have anything against you, but try to stop arguing against something new just for rebellions sake, as I can subtly read from your accusations, which to be honest actually is childish...

Provide constructive critique or else I unfortunately must ask you to leave this thread.
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:51 am

Good god everyone needs to chill out.


Saravanth, if you want to help, supply ideas that are concrete and implementable. This paradigm-shift stuff doesn't really help the developers.
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:55 am

fr0stbyte124 wrote:
Good god everyone needs to chill out.


Saravanth, if you want to help, supply ideas that are concrete and implementable.  This paradigm-shift stuff doesn't really help the developers.
I'm working on those. I will upload my suggestions as soon as they all are ready, because many are dependent on each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Overdue Enlightenment   Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:59 am

Awesome. I am curious to see what you come up with.
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