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 Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log

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Groot
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:16 am

MrTargareyan wrote:
Prototype wrote:
MrTargareyan wrote:
I have very little knowledge of what its supposed to look like, apart from the pictures you posted. But it looks good Smile
You don't know what an X-wing looks like ?!?

I have a vague idea, but I get confused between a lot of star wars ships :3
:::HINT:::

It's the one with wings that look like an X
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:22 am

Prototype wrote:
MrTargareyan wrote:
Prototype wrote:
MrTargareyan wrote:
I have very little knowledge of what its supposed to look like, apart from the pictures you posted. But it looks good Smile
You don't know what an X-wing looks like ?!?

I have a vague idea, but I get confused between a lot of star wars ships :3
:::HINT:::

It's the one with wings that look like an X
xD I was more talking about the many star destroyers, I never managed to sit through a whole star wars movie; It all seemed a little silly; though that may just be me. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:59 am

ok, re-proportioned the whole thing (turns out the wing width was fine, and the rear fuselage was only a few units off) Re sized the engines, S-foils have been changed from an angle of 12 to 17 (actual is 17.322) and the first PewPew has been made.



the engine connections do not cover the whole of the wing as I actually need the main engine to cover up the gap, but the connection doesn't actually cover the whole wing anyway according to the reference I'm using, but I can probably fix this bit when I come to re-make the wing using shapes (the engines will move back anyway there to cover the extra width).


I'm also thinking I can add a bit more detail to the intakes in that they round off a little bit, so I can shorten them and add a not so wide square in there. I'll do something similar to cover the little bulge in the back of the exhausts.

now with the engines there they do overlap over the main fuselage, however if those were cylindrical, they would not, I might be able to try something though.
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:47 am

finished the PewPews




is there anything I've missed out so far?


Last edited by Prototype on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:57 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:52 am

Prototype wrote:
Jedi or Tiel, would you know the angle of difference between an S-foil in attack position and rest position?)
I dunno what the actual angle is, but this picture shows them front-on in attack position, so you should be able to measure it or whatever.

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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:54 am

That's the picture I've been using, I worked it out to be 17.322 degrees so the correct angle is probably slowed to be 17
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:18 am

Prototype wrote:
That's the picture I've been using, I worked it out to be 17.322 degrees so the correct angle is probably slowed to be 17
It is?

EDIT: Huh. OK. This one's just in color.

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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:48 am

This is what happens when I forget to export as turbomodelthingy

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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:57 am

looks legit 10/10
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:18 am

That's what the empire should have done long ago !
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:33 pm

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:
Laserbilly wrote:
I thought it looked just as recognizable as it needs to.
Of course it's recognizable. An X-wing is one of the most recognizable ships in all of science fiction. >:0:< is fairly recognizable as an X-wing. If the model was only recognizable, that would be really disappointing, because you could make a perfectly recognizable X-wing out of five boxes. The only things that differentiate five boxes from a good model are the details, and the model as we were shown hasn't got them.
Ok Jedi, let's try to put things into context. Prototype is helping out one of the dozens of Star Wars mods for Minecraft by providing an improved model of an X-Wing.

Minecraft is a game where this:



Passes for this:



(I couldn't find an image with all three in it, so I combined the sheep and the pig. Gimme a break)

The model doesn't (and I think shouldn't) need to be perfect! I'll bet that five minutes on google would yield a dozen models that are more detailed than his and have been around for years.

I think that Prototype is wasting both his time and talent remaking a 20-30 year old model that's already been remade dozens of times by fans much more committed than him. I would have said that before, but for whatever reason, he wants to make it himself; so I'm saying what I can to encourage him to finish this boring, played-out project, and move on to making something cool, interesting, and at the very least original.

Comrade Tiel wrote:
No offense, Laser, but imho you lost a lot of credibility as far as feedback when you admitted you do your best to make feel-good comments as opposed to suggestions for improvement.

Not saying you need to be more of a 'tearing people down' type, but..
No offense taken, but I'd like to clarify that I don't just make "feel-good comments as opposed to suggestions for improvement."
I prefer to identify the things I like about whatever I'm viewing, mention them in the comment, and encourage the builder to continue using whatever it is I liked. If I don't see anything worth mentioning, then I don't leave a comment.
The only case where that isn't true is when a new member posts something and they either receive only negative comments or none at all. In that case, I'll actively look through their post and try to find something good about it (be it a cool color scheme, a good page layout, or even just a cool bit of lore/science fiction that I've never read or thought of before). I do this on purpose, to encourage new posters and let them know that we aren't just a bunch of downers and we want them to join the Futurecraft community and help us grow.
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:52 pm

Laserbilly FTW!
ALL HAIL LASER!
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:14 pm

Lets talk about that sheepig now.
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:57 pm

Laserbilly wrote:

No offense taken, but I'd like to clarify that I don't just make "feel-good comments as opposed to suggestions for improvement."
<snip>
You go on to describe that's exactly what you do. I have every respect for your shipbuilding skills, laser, but after reading
Laserbilly wrote:
I'll look and the project and try to point out what the builder did right with the ship and try to build up their confidence.
I just can't see any redeeming value to your feedback posts. To quote newgrounds - haters and asskissers don't help anyone. The key is performing a successful balancing act between the two. Too much criticism and the person you're trying to help will outright reject any suggestions out of spite (eg: Prototype's response on page 1 of this thread). Too much optimism makes the builder 'feel good', but it doesn't actually leave them better off whatsoever. It took three different people telling me my first ship here (lolcompanioncorvette) objectively sucked before I really took a step back and revised my building style, which isn't all that better, but you get the point.

Before criticism:
 
After criticism:
 

Conversely, look at Vinyl's thread if you want an example of ship building if the author doesn't receive critique, either through mass optimism or personal filtering (seek out the good, ignore the bad) and doesn't adjust appropriately. You might say this is unfair, that every user should be able to build whatever they want - and you'd be right. But creativity on its own is oft insufficient for superior quality - it requires refinement, and outside users able to offer objective perspectives are indispensable to that end.


Last edited by Comrade Tiel on Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:00 pm

Comrade Tiel wrote:
Conversely, look at Vinyl's thread if you want an example of ship building if the author doesn't receive critique, either through mass optimism or personal filtering (seek out the good, ignore the bad) and doesn't adjust appropriately. You might say this is unfair, that every user should be able to build whatever they want - and you'd be right. But creativity on its own is oft insufficient for superior quality - it requires refinement, and outside users able to offer objective perspectives are indispensable to that end.
I actually don't really care about critique, which may or may not have been clear when I went on that rage-y bit on the previous forum.
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:04 pm

Vinyl wrote:
Comrade Tiel wrote:
Conversely, look at Vinyl's thread if you want an example of ship building if the author doesn't receive critique, either through mass optimism or personal filtering (seek out the good, ignore the bad) and doesn't adjust appropriately. You might say this is unfair, that every user should be able to build whatever they want - and you'd be right. But creativity on its own is oft insufficient for superior quality - it requires refinement, and outside users able to offer objective perspectives are indispensable to that end.
I actually don't really care about critique, which may or may not have been clear when I went on that rage-y bit on the previous forum.
Hence the 'personal filter' bit. You either ignore advice or attack the person giving it. Not exactly conducive to any improvement on your part, but who am I to force you to do anything?
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:05 pm

Comrade Tiel wrote:
Vinyl wrote:
Comrade Tiel wrote:
Conversely, look at Vinyl's thread if you want an example of ship building if the author doesn't receive critique, either through mass optimism or personal filtering (seek out the good, ignore the bad) and doesn't adjust appropriately. You might say this is unfair, that every user should be able to build whatever they want - and you'd be right. But creativity on its own is oft insufficient for superior quality - it requires refinement, and outside users able to offer objective perspectives are indispensable to that end.
I actually don't really care about critique, which may or may not have been clear when I went on that rage-y bit on the previous forum.
Hence the 'personal filter' bit. You either ignore advice or attack the person giving it. Not exactly conducive to any improvement on your part, but who am I to force you to do anything?
Oh, that makes more sense. I didn't really get what you meant with the 'personal filter'.
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:07 pm

Well I can't edit it now to phrase it better seeing as you quoted it :L
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:11 pm

Comrade Tiel wrote:
Well I can't edit it now to phrase it better seeing as you quoted it :L
Same with this one too tongue 
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:11 pm

I've wanted to make an X-wing for a while now, and this was a decent excuse.

Also, Manus, for some reason, never made an X-wing, I believe he attempted it (there are a few hints), but probably dropped it for something else. This means that there has been a huge lack of X-wings among the Flan's community (and in Minecraft in general), having this in the cover photo, would theoretically draw in so many more people than what I currently have, purely because this is the starfighter, people will want it, they have TIE fighters and Viper MKIIs from Manus, but if they want the X-wing, they come to us.

I mean really, I wouldn't randomly make something like this for some mod, if I wouldn't be able to use it here with great effect.

Plus, I can pretty safely say I have the best X-wing in minecraft.

However, with the limitations of only being able to use discretely sized boxes, there was no way it was going to be a perfect replica, but I could at least have a good go at trying to get the proportions right.

As for originality, yeah, none whatsoever, however I can now say I can replicate something from a drawing with almost perfect proportions. Apart from the engines, those are meant to be square, but in minecraft, they look so much better square that I'll keep them like that.


Speaking of which, I need a few more designs, I have Iv's design for the Atlas (co-incidentally, Flan has made turrets on planes possible, but I'll need to know how they work before I make this) but if anybody else has drawn up any potential designs then that would be extremely useful.



Also, Tiel, my response has no spite in it whatsoever (I see why you took it that way though, but I didn't intend that, sorry), I figured you and Jedi were going to want me to make it as perfect as possible, so I made it clear to you how my technical restrictions limited my ability to do so.

As for the bits you are probably talking about, I was mostly taking the piss out of you implying I didn't know what an X-wing looked like (and that I wouldn't use a reference, which is just shoddy for a modeller). And of Jedi saying a model which I has clearly stated was unfinished wouldn't do, which I though would be pretty obvious anyway
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:15 pm

Prototype wrote:
Speaking of which, I need a few more designs, I have Iv's design for the Atlas (co-incidentally, Flan has made turrets on planes possible, but I'll need to know how they work before I make this) but if anybody else has drawn up any potential designs then that would be extremely useful.
I could dig up some concepts for some old strikecraft if that sounds like something you'd be interested in.
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:17 pm

Vinyl wrote:
Prototype wrote:
Speaking of which, I need a few more designs, I have Iv's design for the Atlas (co-incidentally, Flan has made turrets on planes possible, but I'll need to know how they work before I make this) but if anybody else has drawn up any potential designs then that would be extremely useful.
I could dig up some concepts for some old strikecraft if that sounds like something you'd be interested in.
Well it'll be better than nothing, I'll probably make a separate thread regarding concept work, as I really need to properly list my limitations, I did sum it up pretty well when I asked Iv to draw some up, but that's on the real forum.

I might also go and bother Mack for a few
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:20 pm

I will attempt to sketch some at some point, though they may fail, and will be on paper.
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:21 pm

MrTargareyan wrote:
I will attempt to sketch some at some point, though they may fail, and will be on paper.
Right, just bear in mind all I have to work with is boxes, trapezoidal, and 2D polygons with a set depth, IDK how Manus's new functions work, so I can't comment there.
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PostSubject: Re: Prototype's temporary and somewhat dissapointing development log   Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:27 pm

This Is How They Mostly Look:
 
I could do some revisions to show some neat things with the wings and stuff.
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