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 Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea

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Julo
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PostSubject: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:50 am

Do you remember my Anti lag idea thread, yes?
Frostbyte said there, that it doesn't matter how big an entity is, but how many are in the render distance.
And then Mack said, that Frost wants to make the spaceships a single entity, but I think that this is not easy.
My solution:
We need something like the ship creator in Battleshipcraft.
In this game you build battleships out of blocks (what else?).
Every block costs resources (money) except for basic ones.
That means basic hull or ballast is free, but if you want armor it costs 50 resources.
Guns also cost 150 (20 mm machine guns) up to 90.000 (40 cm triple gun) resources (in the mod mining lasers count to weapons).
In the mod you should be able to buy computers, engines, hangars and electricity producers.
For the money we can use something like Iconomy.
You get resources from solving missions and selling blocks, minerals, or guns.
I think interior blocks (stairs, chairs, holograms etc.) should be free like detail blocks (lights, windows, bridge blocks etc.).

When you come into space for the first time you get a spacedock core block and 1000 money units.
Discuss about my idea, the prices for modules, the name of the money, if my idea is realizable and money sources.
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Ivan2006
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:19 pm

I think you should craft the stuff and advance in technology to craft more.
There really is no point in getting the items from NPCs as you are suggesting.
It would be better if trade would be limited to player-player or faction-faction trade to avoid people farming money, as it is possible with said Iconomy- plugin.
Again, craft your stuff with materials you mined.
It´s called Minecraft, after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:27 pm

I have played battleship craft, and I was thinking on suggesting the same thing, only you build the ship in the normal minecraft world, and then "select" a cuboid region that contains the whole ship.

Perhaps automated mining systems or planetcracking would be an alternative to tedious mining.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:41 pm

Building would consist of constructing a ship in a shipyard in 'Design mode' with unlimited blocks, that, when done, would generate a .fr0st file or some other. Every block available would be craftable, though the option of buying it from a vendor automatically if the resources aren't available sounds rather lucrative.
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Groot
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:43 pm

EmoTiel wrote:
Building would consist of constructing a ship in a shipyard in 'Design mode' with unlimited blocks, that, when done, would generate a .fr0st file or some other. Every block available would be craftable, though the option of buying it from a vendor automatically if the resources aren't available sounds rather lucrative.

That seems like a good idea, but could support be added for converting .schematic files to whatever file we will use, because that way people can use ships they have already built (there is no way in hell I am building my Tormentor again)
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:48 pm

You'd have to ask Keon about that.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:40 pm

The problem with taking ship designs from other worlds is that there are new materials that are being added (list has been given in the into to this mod). not using these materials would put you at a major disadvantage as your armor wouldn't be as affective. Therefore you will get destroyed. So unless you are willing to change all the blocks to a certain type (changing all iron blocks on your ship to naquadah) with a //replace command (like in Singleplayer commands) your screwed. now that i think about it, that's doesn't sound that bad of a solution. As long as you are willing to make some major changes to your ship once the mod comes out you should be fine.

Recommendation. Leave lots of empty rooms in your ship if you want to use it in the mod in the future (if you can import it). you might need a room to house equipment you didn't plan for originally.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:58 pm

I think there should be a way of getting your ships from standard MC into FC.

But no one´s said anything accurate about what to do with the scematics once they are in FC.
My idea: Shipyard structures. They look a bit like a BC quarry, just a bit more complicated, and serve the purpose to build ships out of supplied materials with scematics.
If you drive a ship (prototype) into the shipyard area, the shipyard can scan the ship and give you scematics, allowing for standardization of your fleet and actual use of ship classes. (maybe a ship automatically gets a class name from the ship its scematics originated from)
I don´t think that´s in any way OP, as you still need to supply that thing with materials.
It also is important that the shipyard intelligently decides which blocks to put down first (e.g. not plant trees in your city-ship´s park before the park is sealed off from space)
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:06 pm

Richard_cypher wrote:
The problem with taking ship designs from other worlds is that there are new materials that are being added (list has been given in the into to this mod). not using these materials would put you at a major disadvantage as your armor wouldn't be as affective. Therefore you will get destroyed. So unless you are willing to change all the blocks to a certain type (changing all iron blocks on your ship to naquadah) with a //replace command (like in Singleplayer commands) your screwed. now that i think about it, that's doesn't sound that bad of a solution. As long as you are willing to make some major changes to your ship once the mod comes out you should be fine.

Recommendation. Leave lots of empty rooms in your ship if you want to use it in the mod in the future (if you can import it). you might need a room to house equipment you didn't plan for originally.

That's what almost everyone has done, as for changing the materials of the hull, you could use MCedit to do that fairly easily
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:47 pm

Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:
I think there should be a way of getting your ships from standard MC into FC.

But no one´s said anything accurate about what to do with the scematics once they are in FC.
My idea: Shipyard structures. They look a bit like a BC quarry, just a bit more complicated, and serve the purpose to build ships out of supplied materials with scematics.
If you drive a ship (prototype) into the shipyard area, the shipyard can scan the ship and give you scematics, allowing for standardization of your fleet and actual use of ship classes. (maybe a ship automatically gets a class name from the ship its scematics originated from)
I don´t think that´s in any way OP, as you still need to supply that thing with materials.
It also is important that the shipyard intelligently decides which blocks to put down first (e.g. not plant trees in your city-ship´s park before the park is sealed off from space)


Tiel back in February wrote:

Shipyards

You'll launch a ship with a Hub, but after this you'll have to launch up portions of the station, like the modern day I.S.S. This will give you a simple station to work with for defense, pictures of your planet, etc. At some point you'll construct segments in Zero G with your space suit of awesomeness. This is where the fun comes in - in order to have a fully functional constructor, you must craft a core of sorts. In theory, 1 Tier I core can handle around 300 blocks. Building these in a formation to look like



or



Would in the end be more efficient, as the cores would overlap and prevent anomalies (heh, heh Laughing)

Yes, these aren't perfect. Using a single core to construct 300 blocks is like using one piece of coal for cooking 8 meat - it doesn't always work. It'll be minor, perhaps. A block here, a block there..and pretty soon it isn't airtight anymore. Not a good first impression to your customer - in fact, you might not be expecting any further business from them (literally).

You'll notice I said 'Tier I core' up there. My suggestion is that there are 3 tiers of core that get progressively more expensive to make, but also are capable of making more blox, and perhaps Tier I & II won't be able to create certain types of blocks.

Tier I: 300
Tier II: 500
Tier III:1000

As for time, think about how long it takes you to build a ship in creative. Then think how much time it'd take to build that in Survival. The latter is how much time the ships will take to build. It'll be lengthy, yes, but being able to focus on other tasks makes it worth it. In addition, you MUST have twice the amount of materials necessary in order to construct a ship in this here shipyard, as machines can make mistakes - better safe than sorry. You can collect the remainder afterwards and put it to use again in conjunction with more materials.

Lastly, how does the shipyard construct these ships? First, you build the ship in your shipyard. If you couldn't build it yourself, you sure as heck don't have the right to mass produce them. Thus, I suggest a sort of Central CPU Core would be installed that would //copy your creation to it's memory, provided there are enough Cores in the area you build it in. Another thing would be Console blocks, which could be used everywhere in this mod for a variety of things. Wiring a Console block to some Shipyard Cores will in essence create a virtual shipyard, and right clicking the associated console will bring up a GUI with the ship types the Central CPU has saved to memory. If there aren't enough cores or materials in that certain Shipyard, it will notify you. You CAN still build a ship with less cores, but it will be incomplete, as in missing some blocks.

Hardly a 'new' concept. Keon's been working on the basics of a Shipyard system for some time now.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:53 pm

I dont really see anything in here about anti-cheating...
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:49 pm

I thought naquada had kind of just faded into nothingness. Haven't real materials taken its place? Doesn't matter, just wondering.

There should be a build pack for CSP, so you can place whatever you want and nothing has to be converted. That said, in the shipyard GUI, there should be a place to enter a .schematic/.fr0st, a place to enter a ship class1, a place to enter a ship's individual name1, a place to store materials, a design mode option2, a progress bar, a "Buy needed materials" option3, and a GO button.

1. Every ship made from that .fr0st would have the same class name. If the template is edited, the ships made from the edited template can keep the old class name if the builder chooses. A ship's individual name is optional and would be displayed over the class

2. If a template is not given, the user must go into Design Mode and build one themselves. Just like creative, but with more lasers.

3. A shipyard/building builder can use a specified nearby market if the builder chooses and money is placed in the machine.

I also suggest an in-game representation of .fr0st/. schematic files, so a builder can save their ship and place it in a library for others to use.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:07 am

Cats, representations of your schematics in game is brilliant. I love that, it just adds a level of realism. Even better I can name a schematic death star and have someone steal it.

Also, I think that in order to build anything resources need to be brought to the shipyard, so you can't just throw money in it and build a fleet. You either need to mine for them yourself or go out and collect them by some other means, like trading, and then have them loaded into the building mechanisms.

Also, I think you should be able to start building your ship once you have one third the required materials, but not any sooner. Though maybe a shipyard needs a priority basis on how it makes a ship, like place bottom and work way up, place exterior blocks and work way in wards, a by type of block used ex from iron to dirt, or let player select order of materials, like in the world creation options.

And Whats the deal with materials that are being used, was that ever decided?
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:33 pm

catsonmeth wrote:
I thought naquada had kind of just faded into nothingness. Haven't real materials taken its place? Doesn't matter, just wondering.

There should be a build pack for CSP, so you can place whatever you want and nothing has to be converted. That said, in the shipyard GUI, there should be a place to enter a .schematic/.fr0st, a place to enter a ship class1, a place to enter a ship's individual name1, a place to store materials, a design mode option2, a progress bar, a "Buy needed materials" option3, and a GO button.

1. Every ship made from that .fr0st would have the same class name. If the template is edited, the ships made from the edited template can keep the old class name if the builder chooses. A ship's individual name is optional and would be displayed over the class

2. If a template is not given, the user must go into Design Mode and build one themselves. Just like creative, but with more lasers.

3. A shipyard/building builder can use a specified nearby market if the builder chooses and money is placed in the machine.

I also suggest an in-game representation of .fr0st/. schematic files, so a builder can save their ship and place it in a library for others to use.

Quite good idea.

Also, Naquadah never was a building material.
It´s more the energy source/warhead kind of stuff that will make your ship blow up even faster if you use it as hull.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:10 pm

Keon was working on the basics for a shipyard a long time ago. He made a new block with a smiley face texture* that made a big iron rectangle, or something like that.

*important detail
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:21 pm

I approve of .schematic/.fr0st files interchangeability, for there are already a lot of schematic out there, and it means players who do not own a server can get an admin to import their ships (provided the admin isn't a complete douche)
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:42 pm

Or just allow users to import files on there own?
And on the how it should build it, The process should go as follows: Hull, Interior Hull, Interior facilities, Exterior Facilities, Etc Details.

And a global library might be fun :> Build a badass looking ship, Then recreate it and give it one fatal subtle flaw so you can blow up any copies!
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:53 am

User import was what I was thinking. Admins shouldn't be able to edit any part of their map or hold any of the powers that a normal server admin has.

Speaking of which, I have some ideas about admin powers in FC.
-NO map editing. If the spawnworld is terrible (eg. all ocean) then it can be regenerated, but an old map file cannot be used. A Universal Moderator would have to be contacted if a server's planetary system was lost due to crash, deactivation, or movement of server.
-Bans should be handled in a more exile-ish way. The banned player is marked as a foe in the faction's HUDs. Basically a Shoot-On-Sight, prevents interstellar travel complications.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:37 pm

Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:

Also, Naquadah never was a building material.
It´s more the energy source/warhead kind of stuff that will make your ship blow up even faster if you use it as hull.
oops, well i need to finish stargate then. And that also gave me a wonderful idea! load a nuke on my ship and ram the bad guys! detach from front section and run like hell because we stuffed it full of Naquadah.

Wait, hold on one moment. The stargates are made from refined naquadah, and they can take an impact from a meteor and survive. It sounds like perfect armor. The fact that it absorbs energy could be a major issue if you don't do proper isolation on your cables though.


Last edited by Richard_cypher on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : error)
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:49 pm

_Shadowcat_ wrote:
Or just allow users to import files on there own?
And on the how it should build it, The process should go as follows: Hull, Interior Hull, Interior facilities, Exterior Facilities, Etc Details.

And a global library might be fun :> Build a badass looking ship, Then recreate it and give it one fatal subtle flaw so you can blow up any copies!

I've been doing that for ages
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PostSubject: Re: Anti cheating, boring mining and lag idea    Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:12 pm

Prototype wrote:
_Shadowcat_ wrote:
Or just allow users to import files on there own?
And on the how it should build it, The process should go as follows: Hull, Interior Hull, Interior facilities, Exterior Facilities, Etc Details.

And a global library might be fun :> Build a badass looking ship, Then recreate it and give it one fatal subtle flaw so you can blow up any copies!

I've been doing that for ages

someone else tried that once... Darth Vader?

Anyway, you could probably download/ they create a mod that lets you select an area and save it as a file (this has basically been said i know) that way you could copy over more then just ships. then people could buy and sell bunker designed and house designs too. Most people on minecraft are fantasy fans so they may lack the touch for futuristic designs. It took me a while to get in the proper mind set for ship creation.
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