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Ivan2006
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PostSubject: Research Idea   Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:08 pm

What we have about research: There will be some kind of research system. Nothing else is set in stone.

What the problem is: A core feature without any accurate descriptions in some community-driven mod? Unacceptable.

My Idea:

To prevent people from just googleing the recipes for what should be researched, we should do it like Thaumcraft and make the completed research required to craft the item at all.

In order to research, you first need NPCs (not the villagers, the ones FC will use to do stuff like man your ship) and use [insert some fitting item here] on them to turn them into scientists.

Once you have your scientists, you need to provide them with stuff like: an area to work, research devices, materials, (later) energy and something to store their research results in.

Once a research is complete, you can enter a GUI on the "data-storage-thing" (which might have different versions, like a bookcase to get started at all and for more complex stuff you would need something like a data storage computer) and get yourself blueprints (required for advanced crafting) for stuff made available for crafting by research or copy an entire technology and paste it in the technology storage of another lab. This could also be used for technology-trade. You could also use blueprint folders where you can put several blueprints at once to avoid inventory jamming. You may also store several blueprints/technologies at once in a digital data storage device (maybe different kinds, like floppy disc, CD, or data pad which allows for viewing the stuff on it like on paper without a computer) which have limited memory (different for various types of data storage) while each tech/blueprint takes up a certain ammount of memory.

Research projects would be split into 3 categories:
1.)Basic/general research: Basically you research the technology, requires completely differnt things, depending on research. Produces technology to climb the tech tree/web (whatever it´s gonna become)
2.)Device research: You use your technology to unlock crafting recipes. Requires certain basic research and unlock of all components. Might require materials and assembling devices for prototypes. Each gives you exactly 1 unlocked crafting recipe. Modular stuff would not need to be researched individually, insteads you need only 1 device research for the item category (e.g. planes) as 1 research for each possibility would be too much work.
3.) Reverse-engineering: If you uncover some ancient alien artifact or something similar you can give it to your scientists and let them do research on it. Once the research is complete, you will get a boost in both basic and device research towards the machine you uncovered. However, if you already have that machine researched, you won´t get any new information out of it.

There would be 2 research modes for labs:
In manual mode you select each researched technology seperately.
In auto-research mode the scientists research random things which have their requirements fulfilled. You would also be able to tell your scientists of a lab (maybe configurable with a black wall- like thing you put on the wall in the lab) to focus on certainthings, like only do device research of computer-stuff or general research on Plasma tech, allowing for specialisation of both your faction and specific labs.


What do you think?


Last edited by Ivan2006 on Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:36 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:19 pm

Well OFC it will be like this, it's not the recipe that we actually discover but the technology itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:07 pm

I used to have an idea where to get exp, and when you level you get a research points,where you can use to get a tech from the tech tree, but now I think, and I don't know how similar it is to Ivan.

You have labs (obviously) with scientists, and you go on to a science management menu, that is able to pick which lab researches what(and other stuff), by clicking on a research button it brings up to the tech tree, you click on an available technology, and that lab starts to research it, the lab will slowing accumulate research points, and when it reaches the amount the technology requires, you will have access to it. Labs can research multiply stuff at once, but it would take a long time, compared to all the labs researching one tech, because if multiple labs are working on one tech, the points will pool.

The more labs you have, how advance your equipment is, and how trained are you scientist are, dictates the speed of getting points.

Also if you find a wreak or an ancient ruin of a ship or something, and reverse engineer it, it won't give you the tech but a boost in research for what ever area of the tech tree its from, so if you find a wreak ship, and the engine is the only thing reverse engineer-able, you can't use it to give you a boost in lasers.

If you give a technology to an ally, it has to be an available tech they haven't started to research on, so a beginner faction can't get tier 7 stuff right away cause they have an ally in a more advance faction.

Also you can upgrade existing tech by clicking on an already research tech (if it has any upgrade spots left) and maybe choosing a number of ways to upgrade it, example: you could have the option to increase the lasers range, or how fast it fires, or how powerful it is, the amount of research point you would have to accumulate would be much lower then the tech was originally.






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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:13 am

I don´t think exp-levels should be used for research, as you get them for killing mobs, which doesn´t have much to do with research.
Also, I think having different labs being able to research the same stuff at once is a good Idea, but should require some connection between them (e.g. data cable).
However, I completely agree with the reverse-engineer part, alien artifacts should not give you the actual device, as you won´t be able to find out how it was made from some ancient broken thing.

About the upgrade-research: The way MC works might interfere with upgrading weapons and stuff.
Also, as a lot of FCs crafting will be modular, "upgrading" will propably work by using better parts for the device, meaning that already built weapons can´t be furtherly upgraded like in RL. (except with attachements)

Gonna update OP...
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:50 pm

Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:
I don´t think exp-levels should be used for research, as you get them for killing mobs, which doesn´t have much to do with research.
Also, I think having different labs being able to research the same stuff at once is a good Idea, but should require some connection between them (e.g. data cable).
However, I completely agree with the reverse-engineer part, alien artifacts should not give you the actual device, as you won´t be able to find out how it was made from some ancient broken thing.

About the upgrade-research: The way MC works might interfere with upgrading weapons and stuff.
Also, as a lot of FCs crafting will be modular, "upgrading" will propably work by using better parts for the device, meaning that already built weapons can´t be furtherly upgraded like in RL. (except with attachements)

Gonna update OP...


For the exp I said I used to think that but then changed my mind to the thing I was talking about in that comment also the data cable seems obsolete if you have something like the Internet
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:56 pm

Research seems like a good idea, butk can't decide if it would be better to have it so you discover the crafting recipe, do it how normal MC works, where you have to use X material to get Y material, and you combine Y and Z to make A, if that makes any sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:13 pm

The crafting recipes are going to be so complex that no one will be able to randomly come across them unless they look them up.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:30 pm

Mayhaps a Codex of sorts, so once one finds a recipe, or reverse engineers a device, they don't forget it.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:11 pm

ACH0225 wrote:
Mayhaps a Codex of sorts, so once one finds a recipe, or reverse engineers a device, they don't forget it.

Library! Find a recipe, you get a recipe book from it. Place the recipe book in a library so others in your faction can use it.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:34 pm

Library FTW!
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:42 pm

Time to make that library camo skin....

NEWS FLASH!
Today one of the biggest librarys of technology was burnt to the ground!

wasnt me!
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:21 pm

ACH0225 wrote:
Mayhaps a Codex of sorts, so once one finds a recipe, or reverse engineers a device, they don't forget it.

Actually, I already covered this one.
You research something, it gets stored in the data-storage device of the lab and you can copy it everywhere you want (e.g. giant computer room or 8in earlier stages of the game)library).
That also means that you have to be cautionous where you put your tech, because space pirates might attack your ship and steal your tech as well if you put it in there.
Adds another fun feature: tech stealing!
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:23 pm

catsonmeth wrote:
The crafting recipes are going to be so complex that no one will be able to randomly come across them unless they look them up.
How long exactly will it take until someone will put up a FC-wiki with all the recipes after we got big?
We need a lock in the code so that people don´t just "look it up", instead they need to research it, thus unlocking and telling them how to do it at once.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:36 pm

Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Tiel wrote:
Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.

People can easily make their own (inofficial) wiki with the recipes.
They did it with Buildcraft, as they weren´t satisfied with the service provided by the mod authors.
The same will happen to us once we get big and don´t release the recipes.
Not having blocked recipes would lead to servers getting to high tiers in 1 day or less.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:02 pm

Tiel wrote:
Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.

sorry to break it to you but the "core" Minecraft isn't going to work in futurecraft, that whole the only thing stopping someone from making something, is is knowing the recipe, and having the items, is a horrible idea that wont work, can we please get past that, IT WONT WORK.

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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:03 pm

Burnttoaster wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.

sorry to break it to you but the "core" Minecraft isn't going to work in futurecraft, that whole the only thing stopping someone from making something, is is knowing the recipe, and having the items, is a horrible idea that wont work, can we please get past that, IT WONT WORK.


Thank you for helping.
That bird was getting annoying with his "´that´s not needed"-behavior.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:06 pm

Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:
Burnttoaster wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.

sorry to break it to you but the "core" Minecraft isn't going to work in futurecraft, that whole the only thing stopping someone from making something, is is knowing the recipe, and having the items, is a horrible idea that wont work, can we please get past that, IT WONT WORK.


Thank you for helping.
That bird was getting annoying with his "´that´s not needed"-behavior.

I have to agree,most of the time the bird is right as much as I hate to admit it.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:09 pm

Jack Root wrote:
Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:
Burnttoaster wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.

sorry to break it to you but the "core" Minecraft isn't going to work in futurecraft, that whole the only thing stopping someone from making something, is is knowing the recipe, and having the items, is a horrible idea that wont work, can we please get past that, IT WONT WORK.


Thank you for helping.
That bird was getting annoying with his "´that´s not needed"-behavior.

I have to agree,most of the time the bird is right as much as I hate to admit it.

So, are you saying that the bird is wrong, altough that´s unusual?
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:33 pm

Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:

That bird was getting annoying with his "´that´s not needed"-behavior.

That was uncalled for.

It's inevitable that someone is going to compile a list of all the recipes. Fighting it in vain only serves to foster resentment among the future futurecraft community.

Ergo, if you think that will ruin the gameplay of your suggestion, perhaps it is not the most ideal for implementation.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:39 pm

Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.

People can easily make their own (inofficial) wiki with the recipes.
They did it with Buildcraft, as they weren´t satisfied with the service provided by the mod authors.
The same will happen to us once we get big and don´t release the recipes.
Not having blocked recipes would lead to servers getting to high tiers in 1 day or less.

Restrictions should be on materials available, not just in knowledge to craft.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:09 pm

catsonmeth wrote:
Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.

People can easily make their own (inofficial) wiki with the recipes.
They did it with Buildcraft, as they weren´t satisfied with the service provided by the mod authors.
The same will happen to us once we get big and don´t release the recipes.
Not having blocked recipes would lead to servers getting to high tiers in 1 day or less.

Restrictions should be on materials available, not just in knowledge to craft.

The restrictions should be on ability to craft

the materials will be controlled by the market
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:29 pm

Burnttoaster wrote:
catsonmeth wrote:
Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.

People can easily make their own (inofficial) wiki with the recipes.
They did it with Buildcraft, as they weren´t satisfied with the service provided by the mod authors.
The same will happen to us once we get big and don´t release the recipes.
Not having blocked recipes would lead to servers getting to high tiers in 1 day or less.

Restrictions should be on materials available, not just in knowledge to craft.

The restrictions should be on ability to craft

the materials will be controlled by the market

Most materials will be obtained manually. Things on the market will most likely be crafted things. There will probably be too many recipes that are too complex for anyone to memorize, so research and libraries. There will be unofficial wikis, recipe lists, etc. but even if someone has the recipe, they wouldn't be able to obtain materials because their tech isn't high enough to make much of it, it's too rare, they have no money, or they don't have high-tier mining tech.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:17 am

catsonmeth wrote:
Burnttoaster wrote:
catsonmeth wrote:
Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:
Tiel wrote:
Well, then you're taking away the core of minecraft. Very few people could have picked up Minecraft Alpha and have known what to do from the getgo, even if they'd played Classic.

Bear in mind, though, that the wiki will have moderation if this mod ever comes back. Offending pages and users could be removed without incident to preserve the task of research ingame.

People can easily make their own (inofficial) wiki with the recipes.
They did it with Buildcraft, as they weren´t satisfied with the service provided by the mod authors.
The same will happen to us once we get big and don´t release the recipes.
Not having blocked recipes would lead to servers getting to high tiers in 1 day or less.

Restrictions should be on materials available, not just in knowledge to craft.

The restrictions should be on ability to craft

the materials will be controlled by the market

Most materials will be obtained manually. Things on the market will most likely be crafted things. There will probably be too many recipes that are too complex for anyone to memorize, so research and libraries. There will be unofficial wikis, recipe lists, etc. but even if someone has the recipe, they wouldn't be able to obtain materials because their tech isn't high enough to make much of it, it's too rare, they have no money, or they don't have high-tier mining tech.

people will sell anything, specially raw materials, and if people don't, someone will capitalize on it, then people will.
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PostSubject: Re: Research Idea   Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:20 pm

Tiel wrote:
Surp. Grm. Ivan Kintobor wrote:

That bird was getting annoying with his "´that´s not needed"-behavior.

That was uncalled for.

It's inevitable that someone is going to compile a list of all the recipes. Fighting it in vain only serves to foster resentment among the future futurecraft community.

Ergo, if you think that will ruin the gameplay of your suggestion, perhaps it is not the most ideal for implementation.
I apology, It just came over me.
(God, I really need to start thinking before talking/writing)
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