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 Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?

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Last_Jedi_Standing
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PostSubject: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:18 pm

I have a pretty good computer. It's a laptop, but it's really massive and it's been upgraded some, so in general it runs about as well as a desktop. But I've only just started playing MC 1.3.2, and I'm getting 4 FPS. I've heard that 1.3.x is laggy, but geez. I cannot play a game with 4 FPS. It has never been anywhere near this bad before. I used to get a minimum of 25 FPS. Does anyone know anything about this?

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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:37 pm

Strange, my laptop is crap but it actually runs 1.3.x BETTER than previous versions. Strange, isn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:39 pm

One of the symptoms leading up to both of my hard drive failures was a severe slowdown of basic Windows processes like the taskbar, etc. It COULD be your GPU failing in this case, but 1.3.2 wasn't that buggy when I still had my laptop. Pointless, maybe, but I did not experience any noticeable slowdowns.

I'd back up my important files to the desktop, just in case, were I you.
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:42 pm

I have been having a lower framerate in general with 1.3x, but not nearly as bad as your problem. I also have a lot of other problems with 1.3, like random crashes, weird lighting and chunk rendering glitches, and skin glitches. I like the new features with 1.3, but it introduced more bugs than it fixed.
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:13 pm

Died kilometers from base
Made it back to get my items.


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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:16 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:04 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:25 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:47 pm

OK, back on topic. Sorta. Back to Minecraft, at least.

Getting my pick back made me very happy. Not only is it the only iron I'd found, but also I haven't played Survival for a long time and it's nice to see I haven't become incompetent. Although I did manage to die after only playing the world for about half an hour...

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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:54 pm

Grammar Nazi wrote:
I did manage to die after only playing the world for about half an hour...

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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:57 pm

You should probably rename this thread 'Meme war'
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:58 pm

Captain stufuzzycat wrote:
You should probably rename this thread 'Meme war'

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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:10 pm

Fedora Owl.

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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:12 pm

Keon wrote:
Fedora Owl.


I used to make my own memes, but then I took a hard drive failure to the knee.
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:30 pm

memeSTORM 4.0 wrote:
Keon wrote:
Fedora Owl.


I used to make my own memes, but then I took a hard drive failure to the knee.

I used to x, but then I took a y to the z. Fill in x, y, and z accordingly.
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:08 am

Grammar Nazi wrote:
I have a pretty good computer. It's a laptop, but it's really massive and it's been upgraded some, so in general it runs about as well as a desktop. But I've only just started playing MC 1.3.2, and I'm getting 4 FPS. I've heard that 1.3.x is laggy, but geez. I cannot play a game with 4 FPS. It has never been anywhere near this bad before. I used to get a minimum of 25 FPS. Does anyone know anything about this?

Yea comps can carry Skyrim like perfectly but then they get a minecraft in the face and crash Razz . It primarily takes toll on your processor I guess so you should start with it. Also laptops are usually not for gaming. From my experience they lack power in comparison to stationery ones, overheat fast and upgrading it is hard. Yes there are gaming laptops but the cost a lot more than a stationery gaming one.
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:08 am

I can't play Minecraft on my usual computer without Optifine. I tried, and as soon as the stars came up... bam! The game crashed. (I was using the super-night sky Steampunk Texturepack). But regardless, it crashes without Optifine rapidly, and I will have intense lag fairly often (esp. when loading chunks).

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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:56 am

Minecraft's engine is super inefficent. Java in general is a pretty good/clean language (with memory at least, a lot depends on how you program), however, when you toss open GL in there (OpenGL being the graphic engine) it starts to take a toll on the computer running it.

Generally speaking, and I mean generally as I have no idea what spec's your computer has, it will be a bog down in 1 of 3 places. Ram (memory), CPU (too much stuff going on for your processor to get in and out quickly enough) or in the GPU/Graphics Card (usually memory/speed limitations of the system).

Just to give you an idea, at my home I'm running an i5-750 (2.6ghz Quad-core) with 8 gigs of DDR3 1333 with a 1G DDR5 ATI4800 series gaming card. I can run Skyrim, Empire Total War, BattleField 3, MW3, and the list goes on without any problem at max resolution. Minecraft can still drag my system down with the right conditions.

Lighting and heavy entity populations causing a ton of calculations per-tick, have little effect but if you get enough stuff going on, like lots of chunks updating, lots of entites running around and you're moving, it can be quite processor intensive as well as GPU intense. Also take into account that as of the last release, they changed how SSP works. It now uses a server running in the background which makes the game even more inefficent.

Given all that, I'd suspect that optifine or another efficentcy modification might be good for you as opposed to spending money on hardware that will only cover up the problem with sheer speed.... though thats what I'd do Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:14 am

Well that means you better hurry with the New futurecraft engine Smile . Look at the positive sides - if the system is extremely inefficient there is usually a lot room for improvement and manoeuvring which means our programmer's job will be easier, on the negative side it works only in theory Razz .
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:29 am

Well, it's a double edge sword in this case. Minecraft was built, then added onto, then modified, added onto some more, and so forth. The engine isn't particularly efficent because nobody sat down and said "man this isn't efficent, I need to fix this crap", they just kept adding new features. In all reality, the game itself is fine, it just has a rather cumbersum loading process, especially the chunk loading. I haven't gone into a ton of detail with it since I know it's Frost's baby, but I can tell that if left unchecked, the chunk loading itself could easily bring a system to its knees, especially on large maps. Imagine trying to do 500 chunk updates every tick (30 ticks as second), that's 15,000 updates a second, not insane by any means, but then try to do ANYTHING else, like idk, move a player. Things get a bit bogged down. Fortunately, I believe they have changed some of that, so it limits how many updates it does a second to not tie up all its resources. Oh and it doesn't appear to be multi-threaded, that's kinda dumb if you ask me. I'm all about back-ground threads. Sure run the game on a single thread, but why not spin the chunk and entity updates off onto their own updating thread? Idk, maybe I'm just being a programming markist lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:44 pm

Eztrimble.
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:07 pm

Vanilla chunk updating (and just to be clear, we are talking about chunk rendering here) is normally locked to one update per frame, to avoid locking up the main thread. Or at least it used to be. It's a bit different now, but that's still more or less how it operates.

Optifine does a bunch of well thought-out optimizations to the render pipeline, such as further subdividing chunks into smaller render pieces and then loading them more evenly, which levels out the framerate (makes a big difference). It also multithreads chunk rendering like eazymc brought up. Optifine also uses the opengl occlusion culling extension like vanilla minecraft, but it does it less frequently which saves a lot of processing time there, as well. But that's still just putting a band-aid on the problem.

The new render pipeline is a completely different beast altogether. It doesn't have to worry about how evenly geometry is uploaded because it's using ~5-7% the bandwidth per surface area. Everything is multithreaded, not just rendering but also tick operations. Occlusion culling is redone using higher order mesh detail to calculate obvious occlusion (read: most of it) quickly and efficiently in software.
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:44 pm

You're speaking English, right? I understood about a quarter of what you said ( that's about the same as when I tried to read Shakespeare for school).
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:23 am

It's basically 3D rendering methods which I also barely understand, multi-threaded - alright I get it ( With all the operations ran simultaneously on our comps we forget that basically our processors can work with only one piece of code at a time, so the processor divides the stuff he has to run into THREADs that are executed one at a time while switching between threads so it looks like it all runs simultaneously (Correct ?)) but the rest is a bit beyond my knowledge, I did see a picture of frost's method which basically narrows all those useless words into one easy to understand thingy:





(from the minecraft forums ... how do you spare those details from the futurecraft community frost ?)

it looks more chaotic than regular minecraft but much less actual surfaces which means smaller loading periods.
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PostSubject: Re: Is my computer dying, or is Minecraft really this broken?   Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:26 am

That's criminally oversimplifying both the concept of threading and how the new method works, but that's more or less right. The thing with threading is that OSes do it every time you spawn a new process, and they're very efficient at it. It works even better when you have a multi-core processor, which is practically all of them nowadays. It takes more work and planning to set up, but the results are almost always worth it in a time-constrained process.

Also, that illustration is hand-drawn. I hadn't finished the triangulation code when I made it, so I eyeballed it. There's a few mistakes, too, like the really skinny triangles near the crosshairs. Wouldn't have formed like that with the Delaunay algorithm.
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